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Trouble-Shooting => Refrigeration => Topic started by: Slapshot42 on November 25, 2019, 09:19:26 PM



Title: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 25, 2019, 09:19:26 PM
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for  a Cavalier 27?

Thanks !


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 26, 2019, 05:45:10 PM
Here it is... I just rewired a C27 with a new modern compressor harness. & repaired the sold out switch mechnism.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 26, 2019, 10:25:26 PM
I need the diagram for the original Fridgeaire Compressor .  Been working with a few resources on a few options .  The compressor is a LOX 1212 Meter Miser like they used in a domestic fridge .

My original thought was to buy a 3-1 relay and wire C, S, R and use a newer style 4 lead compressor but it sounds like these older units don’t allow based on the relay and t stat being tied in together . Perhaps it I also change the t stat ?
 
The other option is to make my old wiring harness which I don’t relish doing .  I have a poor sketch of what I think might work... I’ll resize and attract shortly .  

The only thing mid picture is a hot wire for power strip which I could get a hot from either my fan or directly out of the relay box with an extra lead.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 26, 2019, 11:24:43 PM
Here it is... I just rewired a C27 with a new modern compressor harness. & repaired the sold out switch mechnism.

How did you tie in the on board relay did you use 3 and 1?


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 27, 2019, 05:39:46 PM
I eliminated the original T-stat, the old start-run potential relay assy. & wired in a standard replacement vending machine wiring harness and  a 3-in-1, it simplified things quite a bit.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Jim on November 27, 2019, 07:12:32 PM
Nicely done Johnie!


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 27, 2019, 07:45:49 PM
I eliminated the original T-stat, the old start-run potential relay assy. & wired in a standard replacement vending machine wiring harness and  a 3-in-1, it simplified things quite a bit.

That was my original idea but i was told since the original compressor and t stat are tied together that it wouldn’t work .  
By eliminating the old t stat I assume you replaced with a new one ?  Contact or Non - Contact?  I was told by the suppliers they don’t make the evap fan motor luckily mine works .

Did you just use ring terminals for the C, S, R?  


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 27, 2019, 08:36:19 PM
Yes, I used a new Ranco beverage cooler/non-contact type,  also I used ring terminals on the compressor leads.  The evaporator fan is a joy to change as you have to remove the drum ‘s guts to get at it, but I have succeeded in adapting a standard unit-bearing motor in the past, fortunately,  this machine didn’t need it replaced ( plus it was an “economy” repair anyway and not a full on restoration)  getting the compressor replaced is also a chore as the whole chassis/body  must be lifted up & off in order to remove and replace it.

One more thing, use a properly sized 3-in1  (1/5Hp in this application) if you go too big, say 1/4-1/3 HP, you run a very good chance of damaging the start winding on the compressor, & then you’ll be crying.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 27, 2019, 08:51:26 PM
Yes, I used a new Ranco beverage cooler/non-contact type,  also I used ring terminals on the compressor leads.  The evaporator fan is a joy to change as you have to remove the drum ‘s guts to get at it, but I have succeeded in adapting a standard unit-bearing motor in the past, fortunately,  this machine didn’t need it replaced ( plus it was an “economy” repair anyway and not a full on restoration)  getting the compressor replaced is also a chore as the whole chassis/body  must be lifted up & off in order to remove and replace it.

One more thing, use a properly sized 3-in1  (1/5Hp in this application) if you go too big, say 1/4-1/3 HP, you run a very good chance of damaging the start winding on the compressor, & then you’ll be crying.

I removed 2 of them this week.  I live to tell the story. I bought the Supco RC810 - 1/12-1/5.  Did you use a 3 lead so you have a hot wire to feed the terminal strip ?


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 27, 2019, 09:32:08 PM
Nope, just the two-lead model, the replacement compressor harness has an accessory connector that supplies line voltage ( not switched) it’s just not shown in my state of the art drawing...   :tounge:  I just tapped onto that & wired it into the upper terminal strip to supply line voltage to the vending & sold-out circuit.

Yep that’s the pileup I remember!    :Oo:    Jeeze, they always look so cute & innocent on the surface, ( just like kids  :laugh:  ).  


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 27, 2019, 09:47:17 PM
Nope, just the two-lead model, the replacement compressor harness has an accessory connector that supplies line voltage ( not switched) it’s just not show in my state of the art drawing...   :tounge:  I just tapped onto that & wired it into the upper terminal strip to supply line voltage to the vending & sold-out circuit.

Yep that’s the pileup I remember!    :Oo:    Jeeze, they always look so cute & innocent on the surface, ( just like kids  :laugh:  ).  

Since mine is removed can I use a 3 lead like a 81 door light to power the terminal board ? I have bought both suppliers wiring harnesses . SJW ( EP15 ) one comes with (2) leads t stat and , evap fan.  Usually have to open the trap door in the back at add a 16 gauge wire with ring terminals for hot wire.  FunTronics wiring harness comes with about 3” of wire with a weird round plug.  I usually cut that off and add spade terminals for a hot wire.

Thanks for the help!!


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 28, 2019, 11:31:48 AM
Either type of power harness will work, I just prefer the Dixie-Narco molded rubber style, btw the weird little round connector is called a “Lyall” plug ( pronounced “lie-all”) they come in two and three pin models, they are quite common on large commercial coolers, where many fan motors come pre-wired with it ( the Lyall plug) as a disconnect means to make servicing to change  them out easier where you’d have many of them say in a grocery store, etc.

And now you know more than you’d ever want to know about Lyall plugs.  :tounge:


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 28, 2019, 12:01:23 PM
Is the Dixie Narco style from SJW or do you have a different supplier ?  Thx


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 28, 2019, 12:57:40 PM
I buy mine locally, but yes, it’s the same.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 30, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
After cleaning the original junction box the HP rating is 1/8 hp.  Also looking for a replacement fan blade as mine is broken.  I measured it at at 6” wide .  It resembles the fan below the pre-cool shelf of the VMC 33 . 


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on November 30, 2019, 09:28:26 PM
Hmmm mine said 1/5,  but the 3-in-1 mentioned earlier in the thread has a range from 1/12 to 1/5HP so you should be good, that’s a very early version of a tri-blade fan. They are prone to cracking were the blades meet the deep-drawn hub.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on November 30, 2019, 09:37:38 PM
Agreed the serial tag was worn with no number .  Thought it was worth putting the actual HP rating down for reference.

Now to find a fan blade ...


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 01, 2019, 11:40:45 PM
New 3 - 1 - how did you get ring terminals to fit in the threads of those terminals ?  There is small channel for the wire to go through my ring terminal shoulder / collar is to long to find inside there .  I tried bare wire with a loop and it starts up just not sure good of connection I’m getting .  I’ve seen some people tin solder the wire . 


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on December 02, 2019, 11:54:01 AM
Don’t know about your compressor model, but mine had phenolic plastic binding post terminals , I just removed the phenolic caps & replaced them with 10-24 nuts & some washers.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 02, 2019, 01:24:19 PM
Mine are the same with the caps.  Regardless of how your fastening how are you getting the ring terminal to fit on those posts?  I assume your fastener is sort of bending and seating itself as it’s fastened down ?

A few fan blade options -

https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=aluminum+fan+blade+6%22


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: cohammer on December 02, 2019, 05:42:22 PM
Great job on the wiring diagram, it really helps to simplify the compressor and thermostat.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on December 02, 2019, 07:58:49 PM
If the base of the  terminals on the compressor case itself are  recessed in a surrounding phenolic “cup”  a standard ring terminals won’t conform down into the recessed area, you may have to form your own by stripping back enough of the wires to form a closed “C”  shape & tin the semi-circle portion with a soldering pistol while leaving the “tail “ flexible so it can rise up out of the recess between the threads & the top-nut.  Or you could try forked terminals

Fan-wise I’d stick with a tri-bladed if possible & use a 4-watt motor, it will run way quieter than a 9-watt so long as you keep the fan blades diameter less than 8”


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 02, 2019, 09:55:01 PM
If the base of the  terminals on the compressor case itself are  recessed in a surrounding phenolic “cup”  a standard ring terminals won’t conform down into the recessed area, you may have to form your own by stripping back enough of the wires to form a closed “C”  shape & tin the semi-circle portion with a soldering pistol while leaving the “tail “ flexible so it can rise up out of the recess between the threads & the top-nut.  Or you could try forked terminals

Fan-wise I’d stick with a tri-bladed if possible & use a 4-watt motor, it will run way quieter than a 9-watt so long as you keep the fan blades diameter less than 8”

The fan motor would have to drilled , die and tapped to accommodate the bracket .


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on December 03, 2019, 08:22:37 PM
if you could post a picture of what the the original motor looks like, I may have an adapter that would work, I've made a few over the years


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 04, 2019, 01:40:51 AM
if you could post a picture of what the the original motor looks like, I may have an adapter that would work, I've made a few over the years



Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 04, 2019, 01:44:51 AM
If the base of the  terminals on the compressor case itself are  recessed in a surrounding phenolic “cup”  a standard ring terminals won’t conform down into the recessed area, you may have to form your own by stripping back enough of the wires to form a closed “C”  shape & tin the semi-circle portion with a soldering pistol while leaving the “tail “ flexible so it can rise up out of the recess between the threads & the top-nut.  Or you could try forked terminals

Fan-wise I’d stick with a tri-bladed if possible & use a 4-watt motor, it will run way quieter than a 9-watt so long as you keep the fan blades diameter less than 8”

I removed the insulating shoulder of the ring terminal.  Wire fit perfectly through the runway for the wire out to the 3 to 1.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on December 04, 2019, 06:43:25 PM
Ah you have a "belly mounted" motor ( that's what I call a motor that mounts around the middle-circumference of the motor's frame)

Easy... you just need to cut some aluminum angle to the appropriate width & using two pieces of the cut angle on each sid eof a double-footed unit bearing motor as shown in the picture, my quicky-demo is held together by sticky tape & colored with sharpies to illustrate the concept, of course you'll be using #6 or #8 hardware to mount and center it to both the motor & the inside diameter of he evap housing, & setting the correct depth for the blades to clear, you may or may not need some additional stand-offs as shown depending on the distance between the motor mount adapters & the evap' housing.

(one set for each side of course...just thought I'd mention this)


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: johnieG on December 05, 2019, 07:20:48 PM
So... whacha think?


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 05, 2019, 07:27:20 PM
So... whacha think?

I lost you at “belly mount “ .  No just kidding , great idea .

This is the fan blade I went with . 

https://m.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=S58-238


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 22, 2019, 06:11:44 PM
Finished getting the compressor back in .  Here are some pictures.


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Jim on December 23, 2019, 09:18:33 AM
Coming together nicely!


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Zerbie on December 23, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
What a great thread to read - it seems very involved and technical to a newbie like me......but so cool that this site/forum exists and kudos to the folks that keep it running! It's great to see folks sharing their experiences and knowledge helping each other out! I would venture to say that not very many folks who are not professional restorers have no idea what it takes to get all the various kinds of machines up & running again (better than they were originally designed).


Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 24, 2019, 04:18:57 PM
I have established line 120 power to the terminal strip .  I have about 6 bottles in the drum .  However the empty light is lit.  The only component missing is the block magnet .  If there something I’m missing ?  



Title: Re: Wiring Diagram Cavalier 27
Post by: Slapshot42 on December 24, 2019, 07:26:41 PM
Resolved the issue the inside switch was stuck .  Working perfectly now .