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Larry
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 07:01:24 am » |
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I was curious on Pam real or fantasy clocks myself. A friend of mine bought this information from someone and shared it with me. Here is what the seller wrote.
There are at least 2 companies out there who are making and selling NEW Pam clock faces, and for other clocks as well. They have been doing so for 10-12 years.
There is a simple way to tell if the glass is new:
There is a "LEAD TEST KIT" one can buy from hardware stores (but may not be available at Home Depot). It is about $6.00-6.99, or $10.99 for a double kit.
It is made by HOMAX Products, Inc., 1610 Sixth St., Bellingham, WA 98225. Phone them to find where they sell in your area. 1-800-729-9029.
With this kit, one can touch a test swab to the paint on the back of glass to reveal if lead is present. A slight amount of lead was used in the paints before the 1970s. I don't know the exact date it was outlawed. If the swab turns pink, then lead is present. If not pink, then no lead according to their test, and would prove it was probably a new face.
Be careful using the test kit, and do so following manufacturer’s instructions at your own risk. I am not connected to this manufacturer, and cannot verify that you follow its directions exactly, so I assume no liability. This is a suggestion as a final proof, if you haven't already discovered the true age of the face. I personally tried this test, on both old clock faces and new ones. Both tests worked fine, and did not harm the paint. If, however, you use it on a definitely old face that may already have some flaking paint, you may be risking paint damage.
Some sellers are taking NEW FACES and even putting a couple slight scratches on them to be able to say in their ads that the face isn't perfect. Then they put them on old cases that they get cheap, and sell them as old, without revealing the truth. Be aware of old Telechron Clock composition cases that were made in the 1940s, being used with painted faces that were supposedly from clocks in the 50s and 60s, or with NEW “Pam” marked faces.
Some are putting the new faces on new cases. They even go to the trouble of scratching and bumping the aluminum case to make it appear to have some age, or even spray painting on a new coat of paint so they can say that they had to "restore" the paint on back. They do this to sometimes cover up the glossy new back. I have had one where someone took an acid or some kind of corrosive chemical, and splattered it on the back of a new case to try to make it appear as if it had a lot of age. It's the same one that the seller claimed up and down that since it was bought at an estate auction and there were lots of people bidding on it, that is must be old! HOGWASH!
If they have used a totally new aluminum case, it will have concentric lines visible on the outer sides. This is caused during the PRESENT manufacturing process that "spins" the aluminum to make the rounded shape. The 1960s and 1970s Pam cases were "stamped" on a machine in one piece, so there are no lines around the outsides. Pam went out of business in the 70s, so NO new old stock Pams exist from the 1980s or later!
Look for a polarized plug. Those are fake or replacement. Non-polarized plugs are on most any old Pam or other clocks. (Polarized have one prong wider at the end than the old straight ones).
Also, most of the original Pams had louvered light bulb doors. That is not a true test, but could help, as most of the new cases are being sold with solid doors. Beware, as they could be replaced, too. I have had a replacement face on a new spun case that had louvered light bulb doors screwed on. Original bulbs were attached with rivets!
Some sellers are putting a replacement, NEW, PAM decal on the backs of these new, spun aluminum round cases, as well as adding them to any case. Most seen so far have been a gold color. Original labels were silver color, sometimes gold. They may even "rough them up" a bit to make the decals look older. Having an original decal, does NOT make the face original!
Some seem to have the extra light switch on the bottom, and sellers are calling them old! They are NEW or added!! ORIGINAL PAMS DID NOT HAVE LIGHT SWITCHES!
One also can try the "finger" test, but it may not always give total protection. If it's a real old clock face, the back will feel slightly rough over the different layers of paint/lettering. This is somewhat hard to detect in certain cases, unless one is an expert. The new painting process makes the new ones very smooth, and kind of glossy, and they have smooth milky white look.
Following is a quote from an expert with a book on Pam clocks:
"One thing that I've noticed to be a red flag on the newly manufactured painted faces is that they all seem to be a bright white color (on the back side). The old original faces almost without exception have a somewhat ‘translucent’ appearance, not opaque."
But, there is even a spray product available that is being used to spray the back of glass to try to make it look old. It is called "Frosted Glass". It makes the back look like it may be 50 years old. I haven't seen it that I know of. I was given this information by another ebayer.
And what about the sellers who have a clock with the aluminum case all beaten up, dented, scratched, etc., and the hanging hole is stretched out from hanging during all those years of abuse, and YET, the face is NEAR-MINT or NEAR-PERFECT?? That kind of situation should always raise questions. These people are smart in their ways. Try to outsmart them with your questions.
I am adding a section here about Dualite Clocks given by another concerned ebayer:
ABOUT THE DUALITE CLOCKS: The easiest say to detect a fake is by looking on the back plastic housing. The originals have three white plastic bosses (knobs) built in from the factory (where the metal screws to the plastic housing), all one piece with the face and housing. The fakes all have three clear bosses glued in for the screws to go in, not part of the original casting. Pepsi, Coke, Quaker State and R.C. Cola are known to have been reproduced.
Beware of some Telechron clocks, too. The Pepsi faces have been reproduced for many years. I would probably not buy one, unless I have it in my hands to look at, or I am on a first name basis with the seller. It is very difficult to detect. The color is off slightly, and the little paint notches around the edge of the circle ring are barely visible.
I would strongly suggest you buy Michael Brunner's book: "Advertising Clocks", a Schiffer Book published in 1995 with a price list. It contains valuable knowledge, such as which clocks were made by what companies. Then you would know that certain clocks which are advertised with Pam faces, are FAKE, as they were only made originally by Telechron! The pictures are fabulous.
There should be a new Schiffer book on advertising clocks out soon, watch for it!
There seem to be many companies out there selling new faces, and/or whole new clocks. I know a company that sells them wholesale for about $130, and retail for about $200 for the complete clock. The faces run about $40-$65. So it's cheap for anyone to buy a new face and install it even on an old can.
These companies seem to do beautiful work. I have seen it. They are even able to print the proper names, dates, etc. at the bottom of glass as the originals. They have a process to make a near perfect looking copy of ANY original.
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