What would you do???

[BrianB]

Ladies & Gents,

Here's my problem, maybe you can offer me some advice. For now I'm going to leave the specifics (names and such) out .

Over a year ago, I made a purchase of a vending related item from somebody I considered very reputable and trustworthy. This person had never done anything to make believe that they would ever stiff me on something.

I took delivery of the item and was very happy with what I got, I mean the guy went out of his way to make sure that I got everything I had paid for and more. It was a very good transaction even though FedEx Frieght kinda screwed up and shipped the item(s) to Dayton, OH instead of Columbus, IN which made for a longer drive but oh well!

So I get the item home and I am super stoked! This machine is awesome and it's pretty unusual. I get an email from the person who sold it to me and he asked if I would be willing to send him a portion of the machine, the light up sign, to him so that he can have a guy he knows reproduce the sign. No problem! It's the least I could do. Especially since he had helped me with shipping on a few transactions and because I love helping with projects that involve reproducing items to aid in the restoration of old machines.

So I send the sign off. Flash forward a few months and I get a status update letting me know that the signmaker is hot on the job, awesome!

Flash forward a few more months....Turns out a few of the colors needed to complete the sign are special order and will take a little while to get shipped in, no prob!

Well....at about the 6 month mark I haven't heard much so I email the person. He tells me that a very unforetunate event has taken place in his life and that the sign project has taken a back seat. Ok, I can deal with that. It turns out that the legal proceedings this person is going through is stickier thatn I previously thought. He tells me that my original sign is caught up in the middle of the legal dispute and cannot be had easily.

A few options are thrown around and we settle on either he will get my original back or he will give me a reproduction sign free of charge as a payback. I was not happy with the situation but was ok with it.

After another 6 months of waiting and monthly emails I get told by this person that my original sign no longer exists and that the reproduction isn't an EXACT reproduction. The top of the of MY original sign is rounded and the repro isn't which means I'd have 5to do some serious modifications to the metal housing that the sign resdies in. Along with that the colors and design are different!!!!! but he assures me that it looks awesome and I'll really like how it turned out.

The last email I recieved was August 13th saying that he will take a trip up to where the sign is and mail it to me and that I've waited long enough.

My question to everybody is when is "enough" enough? I've been waiting over a year and am at my wits end. I have every email this person has sent me and it pains me to read them. I feel like I've been: Lied to, Cheated, and Stolen from. Three things that I despise.

Now the person refuses to respond to PM's and is apparently trying to avoid me but is still willing to make public posts here all the while gaffing me off.

What would you do?'>

Please let me know. Unforetunately my next step will be legal action. additionally, I would feel compelled to let everybody here know who the person is to make sure that they don't get scammed by this person too.

  '>  '>

[cormy]

You have shown remarkable restraint and patience, much more than I would have been able to show. Looks like you are going to get stuck. Unfortunately in this hobbie we take our chances with each transaction and luckily 95% of them are good. Legal persuit? I don't hink it would be worth the time and effort. At some point in time with this and related hobbies (collecting) this is going to happen to all of us, if it hasn't already.

[sodaworks]

Brian, I feel for you buddy. What a shame. I had a some what bad experience with someone who posts here every now and again, it took me over a year to get my parts from him. I will not be conducting anymore business with him. Which sign are you missing? Maybe we can dig one up for you.

[globalcompressors]

Ouch, Brian!!!

The way I see it, he still owes you an original sign...period!  Unfortunately, we all have setbacks. Lord knows I have had my share this year. The situation still remains the same, he owes you.

If possibable, go to where his location is, county, state etc. and file a lawsuit in small clames.  If you win, at the very least, you will win a judgement against him and his company. This can create more than just a headache, preventing any further, existing credit with suppliers or opening new accounts. It will damage his personal credit, showing up as a judgement against him for any new loans, house, car etc.  

I don't know what the value of the sign is, but I'm sure you can create more trouble than it's worth, hopefully getting your sigh back.

As far as mentioning a name...my name had come up once or twice. It's kind of a shock when it happens, making me want to do better a better job or compensate my customer, discount, shipping or whatever it takes. You be the judge!

I learned a long time ago, customers are a privilege to have. I work hard at keeping a good reputation.

Anything I can do?  Let me know!

Eric '>

[bubba]

Brian
I can't believe you have been this patient. I guess you kinda have to be though. Let us know what the sign was so we can keep an eye out for it.

I'm kinda going through something similar on another site with something of much less value. I made a purchase from a site owner on a site that I also mod at. The guy has been shipping my parts for a month and a half now. I'm about ready to blow the top on that one very shortly.

[loman4ec]

Brian, That really sucks. What sign was it? I am sure that someone here can help you find another one. You have been more than patient. I wouldn't have made it to six months. You say that this is a member here? I hope this isn't one of the frequent people? I don't recommend bashing people but I think in this case I would tell the name. After all this site is a group of friends that are almost like family. I can't believe someone here would stiff you like that.  '>

[BrianB]

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. I was starting to think maybe I was being to unreasonable. I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I really appreciate the offer to help me find a sign, that's super-cool! But, if I tell you guys/gals what kind of sign it is, it will give away who this person is.

To make matters worse, this is a regular.

I'm holding off on mentioning the person. I'll give them one final chance to get my sign to me. Like you said, Josh, I'm not into character asassination/bashing but I can only take so much.

[MoonDawg]

Anytime something leaves your posession it is subject to loss, theft or damage.  Would you feel better if he just told you it was lost in shipping and that he would pay the insured value?  Probably not, as the money can't really buy that sign again.
       I would try and contact the holder of your sign and explain the importance of it to you.  But heck......if Tom can find a Queen Anne sign, yours will surface too!



        Ever notice that when we get a real good deal on a machine we are excited for about 2 days then move on.
        But when we lose money on a deal, it takes months to get over it.   '>

         On the other hand, my Uncle always said " If you owe a man a dollar.....PAY him,  but if a man owes you a dollar.....COLLECT it"!

[Eric]

I wouldn't wait any longer...You've gone above and beyond....
 If you can get the sign get it....
Whoever has the sign and is reading this.... come on..... put yourself
in his place.... give the sign back... Don't burn a bridge and loose
a friend....
Can you post an image of the sign so we can all keep a look out?
(Which is a shame cause the person with it should be sending it back
to you in the condition it was sent)

Best of luck....

[Jim]

Brian,

I'm upset to hear this siduation! Moreover, a regular here at SMC!
I think you have been more than patient in this case...
Can you get contact info on the person reproducing the sign and make arrangements to have it returned(w/ one of the reproductions)...?

I have to say that I can't aggree with you more on the fact that liars and thieves are not highly rated in my world! With that said, I'm hoping you can resolve this and should it be necessary, please let us know who we are dealing with...

Lastly, do have more info on what "legal proceedings" are keeping something not owned by this party involved...?

[BrianB]

Jim,

A divorce.

[ZMonet]

Brian,  You have been more than patient.  I would be blowing a gasket as one of the few things in life that really gets me is being taken advantage of.  Clearly that is the case here.  What is the sign worth (rough estimate)?  Also, I am confused as how YOUR sign could get caught up in HIS divorce proceeding, especially if it wasn't even in his possession.  If there was some dispute over ownership, a letter from you indicating that you purchased the "vending related item" should have been enough to satisfy the court.  Certainly all of your e-mails documenting the back and forth should be sufficient.  Is it possible that this item was sold to you in preperation for his divorce (liquidating marital assets without his wife knowing)?  Very strange.

Let us know if there is anything we can do.  Maybe someone on the board who is in the same state as the seller could help with making the small claims filing.

[Ltransam]

Hello,BrianB
                         I'M really sorry to hear abought your problem .It's hard to think that Anyone on this site would Treat another Member like that .I'm sorta in the same Pickel your in With some one from this site allso He's had something of mine for a year Today !! And All I get Are Diffirent Excusses Everyweek . And it's here Or There getting this done or that finished .At this point I8 JUST want it back With What was also given in advanced .So BUDDY I Hope everthing works out for the best & I'm Still gona try my best to work my Problem out .
                                             Ltransam

[Creighton]

Brian,
Very sorry to hear of this. All good advise above. You could also try contacting the Judge and lawyers in the case.
Hope it all works out.
Creighton

[collecture]

Brian,
My thoughts are with you!
I can certainly relate to your experience (kind of). Shortly after High School, I had a friend who ran into some monetary trouble. Against my mother's advice, I loaned this (10 year) friend $200 with the promise that it would be repaid within a few months. Needless to say, a year later I was out $200 and a friend. My mother had told me to never loan friends money as it is the hardest thing to get it back and the ultimate cost is friendship. She was right and I have kept the rule ever since. Now cyber-friends are a tad different, but still the same principle.
As Moondawg said though, I can find you another sign and probably quicker than another Queen Anne sign. It seems as everybody here is on your side, so you have a lot of support and good advice. Hopefully T will come through for you.
Good luck!

[coke_and_stuff]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I dont have any advice to give but what kind of sign was it? maybe one of us here can help you get back a sign like it to replace yours. Let us know as it sounds its not an easy one to find.

Joey

[aspbear1]

Brian,  I have 32 years of law enforcement experience.  Something is wrong here if this is a divorce case.  Even if all property has been seized pending the outcome of the divorce settlement,  the owners of property in the shop or in the people's possession is subject to review and can be released by the judge hearing this case.  

With all of your e mails you can prove ownership to the sign and it should be a simple matter of corespondance with the attorneys involved to get the sign back.

Keep all orginals forward on copies notarized with your signature.

I smell something very wrong with this person's story...

[sodaworks]

Brian,
 I have a few machine signs laying around if I have the one you need it's yours.  '>

[Ltransam]

BrainB
              Could you at least post a picture of the sign if you have one as you can see Everyone is willing to help '> . I Would Be MORE then willing to help also If I can .
                                            Ltransam
P.S. Fighting te Same Type Battle  '>

[johnieG]

Folks , unfortunately, this is been going on since Jan. 2006 &  this gent is me, myself & I,

Brian's sign is the victim of my divorce as are all of my other soda machines,  parts & tools, As I've explained to Brian, I can't give him back his sign if I don't have physical custody of his property. since I am (as is she) by court order not allowed to sell, remove, or transfer or convert any & all property including my own personal property from the marital home , this includes the machines that I had sold as well & of couse Brian's sign, & I'm afraid that my soon to be Ex-wife would just as soon put her foot through his sign as surrender it. ( it's a girl thing) I've contacted the original sign shop to duplicate & replace his sign, but they have lost the templett & would need to copy the original or the other repro sign, both of which are, you guessed it, in the barn with the rest of my machines & stuff....Brian I admire your patience & understandably your frustrations & anger , but what am I going to do until the judgement goes into effect & unlocks the property dispute (I kinda know what Jeff Walters went through now), but the divorce if to be finalized on Nov 1st. this year at which point my personal assets will be released to me...until then the IceCream sign would be better off with alcida in Iraq... ...and now you know both sides of the story.  at this point I have other more pressing issues to handle in regards to custody of our 8 year old son. so I'm not spot on when it comes to material things at this point...but don't assume that I'm not keenly aware & quite sensitive of your situation or in anyway ignoring you.

Your sign will be returned to you as soon as I get it back in my possesion. never would I deny or intentionally withhold  anybodys right to the return of their personal property. however I must and will maintain my focus is on my son at this point.  

[hmmm. kinda interesting reading about oneself in the third party] keep those suggestions coming! maybe I can forward them to my X-wife   ...kinda reminds me of an old counrty song lyrics..."I'm so miserable without you , it's almost like you were here"  at the wrap up of this mess looks like I'm buying the first round!

Regards...JohnieG

[aspbear1]

JohnieG,  it takes a man to step forward and I for one understand your plight (been through one myself) they are never easy when they involve children.  I hope the best for you.

As to the sign, with Brian's e mails your attorney can petition the judge scheduled to hear your case for release of uncontested personal property in this case brian's e mails prove that neither you or your wife have ownership of the sign.

emails have been up held in  the 8th circuit court as court respected legal corespondence...

Just a thought,  hope the best for you....

[johnieG]

I appreciate the advice, but , been there & done that , my X-wife's attoneys contention isn't one of ownership, but of value, she contends that the service of reproducing Brians sign has a certain "value" & she's basically holding it (as well as all the other things ) finiancally hostage, and as the this value is appart of the common estate, it is currently held in "status quo" by the judge in order to keep either party from denying that value to the other party ( yes, it is liberal Orwellian double speak) I have already (unsuccessfully)  & the request to release the sign & other property (sold soda-machines & such) have fallen on deaf ears over the past months..but all good things must come to past, & Nov 1st is the date in this case.  

by the way, the sign in the picture is of the orignal sign, the reproduction was mistakenly applied over the cracked plexiglass seen in the picture, I had a second sign made, but they were unable to repro the curved portion on the top that wraps around. thus it will require a metal panel to fill the gap, or he's welcome to the original proto type (which is still cracked & shows through when the sign was lit-up. )

[MoonDawg]

Oh no................all this over that sign?  Seems basic enough to reproduce.  Eric can re-make that logo and the plastics shop can certainly cut and bend the white plastic but probably not before Nov 1, when yours will be available.
       Johnie just layed his cards out on the table for us all to read, he's in a rut and his hands are tied. He has been a tremendous help to us all at SMC and we'd do whatever we could to help him replace this sign for you .
       Think posative Brian

[Ltransam]

BrianB ,
                 As Per JohnieG He has Helped Me before & I Greatly apprecated it . Some Time'S there are unforseen problems & they just need to be worked out !!
I for One am very very Happy that ALL THE People here offred help !!!! And JohnieG I 'm sure would have done anything not to allowed this to happen But I'v been threw A divorce & there UGLY !!!!!!!!!! & Costly on both sides .But allways watch for the Kids First.
 
My Problem Is For a Hole Machine .Which was only to have been for 3-4 Month's now were in to Month 13.Some Payment up front . But I'm Trying to be Very Very up-beat & postive for now .

                                                           Ltransam

[Creighton]

JohnieG,
Wishing you the best in getting through all of this!! Family is first. Nothing else matters. Thanks for everything over the years!!
Creighton

[Eric]

I worked at a factory and they would heat plexiglas and bend it
(was used for face shields on lathes and hob machines.)
I'll work on the sign tomorrow... get me the measurements
and I'll send a .pdf, , .tiff,  .jpg whatever a sign company needs to make it.
Work is coming to a finsh on the book so I can get back to the cap and
stuff in a few weeks.
Hope all works out for everyone!
I wish at times we could all meet! There are great people here.
Hang in there JohnieG... you'll be in my prayers.
This will all work out!

[collecture]

JohnieG,
I would have never guessed that Brian was referring to someone of your stature on the board. I can only empathize with your plight, as I have never been through a divorce. I have had my share of female trouble though.
It takes a man to admit his wrongs to friends and I admire you for that. I hope everything works out for you and ends amicably. Everyone here, as you know, is more than willing to help in any way we can, whether it be helping Brian with his sign or emotional support for you.
BTW - don't you have a Vendo 44 of mine? Maybe it was a VMC Royal Crown 81? J/K
Good luck and take care!

[BrianB]

All,

Yes, divorce sucks. I was there 2 years ago as well. Family does come first. As a 15 year veteran of the United States Navy I know this all too well. I'm not trying to minimalize John's plight at all. But...........

It took me airing out this 1 year plus problem to get the WHOLE truth. If I hadn't of made this post I would have continued to get lied to and strung out only to find that all I would be stuck with is a pile of junk.

Yes, we should support John though his problem. That's not a problem.

But, For me to be LIED to for over a year is a very raw deal. To make it even more of a stab, I get this offer

"By the way, the sign in the picture is of the orignal sign, the reproduction was mistakenly applied over the cracked plexiglass seen in the picture, I had a second sign made, but they were unable to repro the curved portion on the top that wraps around. thus it will require a metal panel to fill the gap, or he's welcome to the original proto type (which is still cracked & shows through when the sign was lit-up. )"

#1 - Is it my fault that the sign shop placed the vinyl overlay onto my cracked original thereby ruining it? NO

#2 - Is it my fault that due to the inability of the sign shop to reproduce the curved portion of the plexiglass that I would be given the option of either accepting back my RUINED original or having to modify my sign housing to accept an incorrectly manufactured sign?'>? So to make it all better "I'M WELCOME TO THE ORIGINAL PROTOTYPE"
Not only NO but heck NO!!!! If you mess up personal property that belongs to another person, YOU MAKE IT RIGHT! Not offer to have the person accept the broken junk back or FIX IT THEMSELVES!

To make matters worse, this isn't a something that is easily replaceable and even though the original was cracked, I still would have liked to get it back intact without unauthorized modifications as per the original deal.

All I want is what was PROMISED to me at the outset. The lying or "witholding information" (see lying) trumps the pity card. I was PROMISED an "REPRODUCTION" of my sign for my Vendo 210 Ice Cream Vending Machine.



John - I forgive you for everything that has transpired to this point.

With that being said, I leave it up to you to do the right thing.

[BrianB]

All -

Here is a better picture of the sign. This one is exactly the same as mine except in this picture you can see the red diamonds in the background behind the lettering.

[Gumbo]

Brian,
Hope things work out and you get your sign back soon.

[Eric]

This is the fonts I found closest to your sign STYMIE and PLAYBILL with some modification to PLAYBILL (ICE CREAM)
If this is ok I'll send it to someone... whoever you need it to go to.
But will need size to make it fit right.
A phone call and the truth would have taken care of all of this.
JohnieG can't imagine what your'e going through and I'm
sorry to hear this. In your world right now the sign is the last thing on your mind. Hope all works out for you and the best for your son.
Brian sorry for what you're going through.....
It will all work out... Let's hope she doesn't trash the sign and all his stuff.
Anyway here is what I came up with off the cuff....
This is a great group (for a bunch of guys and a few gals that think having a old soda machine is a crucial
in life... kinda funny when you think about it)
We're here for you both.... Let's just all be truthful
and up front...

[cormy]

Ok guys, lets get those prenupial agreements taken care of from now on....... '>

[sodaworks]

Hey Guys even though we never met I feel like I know you guys pretty well. Your both friends to us here at SMC and we all want to see you guy's work it out. Brian, I understand your frustrations as it took someone here about a year to send me some parts that he owed me. Fortunately my client was very understanding, more so than me. And Johnnie I too have been down the "D" road before. My ex was the biggest (^(%*$@! from *(&%(&$# and it cost me dearly but I was able to get custody of my Son. Whatever you do stay focused on your Son, he needs your support through this trying time. Nov, is just a few weeks away. I hope you guys work it out. '>

[globalcompressors]

Wow.........


Umm...what can I say?

I've delt with both of you guys, at various points of time. I have complete and total respect for each of you. I think Josh said it best, on the 5th or 6th post, " we are all friends, like family".  Hell, I'm the "Red Headed" step child.

John, you bring an insurmountable amount of wisdom and techincal expertise
to this board. You have always been quick with information, give advise, and frankly I wish I had your ability to be such a big help in so many areas associated with these machines. You are a great asset.

That being said...Brian, you have every right to be dissapointed. The guys who are in the restoration business, rebuilding, reproduction, etc...myself included...have a responsibility to our customers. Sometimes, it's hard to leave work at work and home at home, but the two need to be seperated for the benefit of all involved.

I absolutely believe that this will be resolved. John has shown that he is a "stand up guy", simply by the admission of his foul up.

We are like family. Look at how many of us are willing to take up the slack, or take on the responsibility ourselves, and help and make it right!

We'll get!

Eric '>...your red headed sibling

[MoonDawg]

(globalcompressors @ Oct. 11 2006,8:13)

QUOTE

John has shown that he is a "stand up guy", simply by the admission of his foul up.

The only mistake that I see he made was when he said.......... " I DO "
        Hearing both sides of the story,  I see no indication that Brian was being lied to about the status of his property. First the sign shop problem, then the wife.

        Hey Brian, hope you like Eric's fast work, he's great!  With these vinyl letters on the outside of the plexiglass, and a thin diamond pattern applied to the inside, it should light up just right.    Even when you get your original back, you will probably still choose to install this new one.

[globalcompressors]

Glen,

I'm sure at some point, before saying "I do" they were happy together...don't you think? I've been married for 27 years this October 25th. If you read my bio, I'm 42...you do the math. I don't understand what it's like to go thru a divorce and I'm not going to get into a debate about who's right or wrong, or start wife bashing.

My point is simple, if the job was done in a "professional" capacity, it needs to stay professional. Good communication is key. I've had issues where I have been slowed down by something or another, and I've always made it up to the customer. It's not their problem, it's mine...period!  It's probably why I do the business I do.

As long as John was willing to admit, there was a problem in getting the sign out, he needs to be commended for it. On the other hand, here's Brian with an issue not by his own doing or choice.

Both sides are talking. Hell, we're all talking. Fix it and move on!

Eric

[bcharlton]

Eric:

Math was never my strong point.  Did you really get married as a 16 year old?'>??

Brian C

ps  Can I buy a thermostate for my c-51.  My beer is freezing overnight.

[BrianB]

First off, thanks to all for their input and ideas. It is best to move on and try and focus on the fix. I'm all about that.

Eric -

That artwork is awesome! Would the whole thing have to be done as two seperate layers with one being on the outside (the lettering) and the other on the inside (the red diamonds)?

[globalcompressors]

Brian,

QUOTE

Did you really get married as a 16 year old???

It was 15 actually.


Sure, give a call and I'll fix you up with a new stat.


Eric K. '>

[davethebirdman]

Hey

can you really get married at 15 in the US.

Here you have to be at least 16 with parents approval or 18 without.

[Eric]

Bet that was screen printed all on one side... just using a very light pink for the diamonds.
But what you're saying would work.... or use the vinyl left overs (the part
with the letters taken out) as a mask and spray the lettering on....
That would work and the letter would never peal though you'd
have to use a paint that allows light pass through......

[globalcompressors]

QUOTE

can you really get married at 15 in the US.

It's amazing what happens when you're pregnant (wanted it),  

proclaiming yourself an emancipated minor (court and judge),

getting married (judge),

parents signing for it (to teach a lesson, both sets),

ride you bike to work (get it stollen and now walk),

make a fortune ($2.65 /hr...1979),

Showing everyone where to get off....27 years later...
with pride and dignity completely intact (priceless).

True story.

Eric  K.  

[rogerz]

Could you put the vinyl on the inside of the plexi, paint opaque white over the whole thing and then put the diamonds on top of that? Like old signs and clocks were painted?


rz