V63A not cooling repair or repace?

[goob]

Hi, i have a 1960 v63 with original vt 25 cooling deck.  Everything runs, compressor and both fans but it does not cool. The ccapillary tube gets a bunch frost on it after about 30 minutes running. It was serviced in the late 70's i think with a dryer and fitting with a glass tube.  There is clear liquid swirling in the window when running.  The door is tweaked a little from when a druggie tried to break into it but i dont feel any air blowing when it is running.   I am just getting it going again after sitting for about 30 years, when my dad clised his gas station. I am not restoring it, just wanna cool some beers and pop.  So try and repair, or replace with a global.  Will post pic later, the ones i took were too big to pst, even reduced in size
Thanks, kent

[MoonDawg]

       I am guessing it is low on charge, some of that Freon has leaked out since the machine was serviced.

[johnieG]

I agree that it sounds like an under-charged system, you’ll have to get a gauge set on it & see what’s up, that viewing charge glass is a bit of over-kill IMO for such a small 1/4 Hp system. But since it’s there, you should see only clear fluid filled window through it with some occasional small bubbles, it shouldn’t look like a running faucet or a babbling brook ( a discernable stream)

[goob]

Thanks, just took it out so will clean it up a bit and find a place local to charge and test for leaks.  I am going to see if i can spring the door back in shape with some clamps a block of wood.  Its not too far out and we ran it that way for a long time but if i remember right it would ice up a bit.

[goob]

Another question, running the machine for about 2 hours the compressor and fan never stopped.  Is this because of low r12 or thermostat bad, or hard to tell?  Thanks again for helpimg a rookie!

[MoonDawg]

running the machine for about 2 hours the compressor and fan never stopped. 

     Because of the lack of Freon, the machine never pulled down to the desired temperature.

[goob]

  tough finding someone local to test and recharge. Gonna talk to someone tomorrow morning and told he could do it but would use a different gas.  What would he use that would not screw it all up? If not r12, should I keep looking?

[johnieG]

tough finding someone local to test and recharge. Gonna talk to someone tomorrow morning and told he could do it but would use a different gas.  What would he use that would not screw it all up? If not r12? Should I keep looking?

That Detective,  is the right question , ( I robot) ask him, he's going to do the work...not us, how would I (we) know what gas he's planing to use, there are many suitable refrigerants that could be made to work in an R12 system.  Get your answers before you drag the machine to his shop. There are no guarantees with an old compressor, while many conversions work fine you never really know.

[goob]

Thanks thats what i plan to do. Easier because the cooling deck is out of the machine.  So is it always this hard to find someone local to do the refrigeration.  I had about 5 shops just flat out say no, because they dont make r12 any more.  Grrrr

[johnieG]

Oh R12  is still available, & China makes it by the Nth degree/ tonnes, it's just expensive. every shop has some squirreled away, ( usually recovered or a partial jug of virgin)

I'd go with recovering the R12, vacuum down the system, leak check with nitrogen, vacuum down again, add R134A (with a new filter/dryer)  & some poly-oil additive to help the original mineral oil accept the new R134A,  & see if it fly's ...

[goob]

Thanks that is what i wanted to know when i talk to the guy tomorrow

[johnieG]

Again, this is just one way of many to fix your system,   Guess you’ll find out, good luck.

[MoonDawg]

      You might as well purchase a couple of cans of R-12 before taking your system in for repair.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.XR-12+freon.TRS0&_nkw=R-12+freon&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_odkw=Vendo+

[goob]

I talked to the guy this morning and he said he would pull the r12 out vaccume test for leaks and refill with Hot Shot 2.  According to him not quite as good as r12 but it is a direct repalcement.  Thoughts.  I am in Western Washington and no one wants to touch it.

[goob]

A couple more questions about the wiring.  I pulled the bakelight box off that the compressor plugs into, and looks like you can only access the side where the evap fan and thermostat plug into.  I thought i should be able to get to the power cord also but looks like it doesnt open. Also it looks like there is a cap over the wiring but it seems stuck and i thought it would come off.  Is it just stuck with age or are there tabs of some sort?  Thanks for your help!

[Jim]

A replacement wiring harness can be purchased from Soda Jerk Works or Fun-Tronics.
If you are feeling "froggy", you can carefully drill out the large brass coupling to gain access...

[goob]

Thanks Jim was just researching that.

[goob]

What are your thoughts on hot shot 2?  Search didnt help much. Thanks

[johnieG]

RE; Hotshot -2 It’s a replacement option for R12 systems, & it plays well with the original mineral oil lubricant,   (BTW there is no such thing as a “drop-in replacement “  )  

FYI, pulling a vacuum Is not a sufficient leak test, you really need to pressurize the system to the recommended test pressures either with nitrogen or even R134, if your system is low on charge, then there’s a leak somewhere, and a fresh filter/dryer is always recommended,  find & fix the dammed leak, if it’s a very slow leak,  he could add a rated stop-leak with florescent dye to assure the fix.  

My opinion is that those added flare-fittings on the sight glass & the filter are part of the system leak, original V63 Tecumseh decks were brazed copper, no flare fittings, so the deck was serviced in the past for a leak & the sight glass is was added to easily check on the freon charge without sticking a gauge set on the system, & your Dad probably just kept topping off the system when the pop got warm,  cause he probably had plenty of R12 lying around for the automobile customers AC systems he serviced at his garage.

Thanks for sharing your machines road to recovery with us, good to see you’re taking the time to learn about your cooling system.

[MoonDawg]

       Like Johnie says, a sight glass fitting may be to blame. In looking at your picture of the site glass, I notice that 3 brass fittings are original looking but the one at the very top of the picture looks black as if it has been spraying oil. I would suspect that fitting is where the leak is.

[goob]

Thank all of you for the help and advice, nice to find communities like this.  Moondog, I see the fitting you are talking about. Dad and my uncle didnt do ac work, if I recall was filled in the mid to late 70s the last time.  The ac guy I talked to said all he would be able to do is vaccume test, will find out why.  It was a small service station, full service, lube, oil changes, tires and batteries, kinda like Gasoline Allhey! Also any tricks to getting wiring cover off the compressor?

[johnieG]

the compressor covers rubber gasket is probably just cemented to the case/housing by decades of dirt, heat & gunk, I see that you've removed the mounting screw at the center already, just use a flat blade screwdriver & pry around the edges, it should pop off once you peel off the gasket from the case.  pull it away carefully as the wires going into the protected area are quite short & probably also brittle with age, but if you are rewiring it, it shouldn't be an issue.

[goob]

Thanks needed a block od wood and a few taps of a hammer.  That sucker was stuck.  Now to clean things up a bit and get the cooling deck to the shop. Getting there. Will have to post a pic of it with the newer flying red horse sign I fixed up 

[goob]

Here are before and after cleaning woth coil cleaner. Also ahad more of a problem with the door seal than i thought. Gonna test the cooling deck before sending it for work.  Jim might be right check the simple stuff first!

[goob]

The million dollar question, will the door seal be enough.  i checked the door seal and because the door was tweaked by a break in attempt, it is not as tight as i thought. By adding a 1/4 inch additional weatherstripping it definitely seals better. I am going with Jims comment somewhere go with the simple stuff first, new wiring harness arrives friday, so will plug it all in and see what happens.  If it still doesnt get cold, the to the shop for hotshot 2. Ah the fun of old stuff!

[goob]

Picked up my compressor this morning, recharged with hot shot 2, wouldnt do r-12, and a new overload breaker. It is pulling the temp down nice, cold beers with dinner   thanks for all the help and advice.

[goob]

One last thing when i pulled the cooling deck, the thermostat capillary tube was mounted to the evaporator sheet metal, but based on what i read here looks like it should be free floating in the air flow so that is what i did. Using a freezer thermometer, it is pulling down to 20 degrees in the first 4 hours or so, but not shutting off until i turn the thermostat all the way left until it clicks.  Normal, give it time, or probably bad thermostat?

[goob]

Yea pics help

[MoonDawg]

the thermostat capillary tube was mounted to the evaporator sheet metal,

       There are 2 kinds of thermostats, air flow and contact. Try moving the cap tube back to where you found it.

[goob]

Thanks moondog.  I think it just needs dialing in.  The tip is pretty much the same diameter as the tibe, and it is starting to behave better.  I am gonna let it go a day or two, and if i am not happy will move it. 

[kdog]

One last thing when i pulled the cooling deck, the thermostat capillary tube was mounted to the evaporator sheet metal, but based on what i read here looks like it should be free floating in the air flow so that is what i did. Using a freezer thermometer, it is pulling down to 20 degrees in the first 4 hours or so, but not shutting off until i turn the thermostat all the way left until it clicks.  Normal, give it time, or probably bad thermostat?

When I bought my v56 squaretop, the sensor tube was coiled up, and shoved into the back bottom left corner of the fridge next to the evaporator housing.  The evaporaror was running a lot more and for a lot longer.  

However multiple manuals and photos of machines (v56 and v63) I had taken or had sent to me showed the the tube was either free floating OR mounted to the evaporator, with the tip located over the evaporator airflow for BOTH options.  Here is a thread all about it.

http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,22341.0.html

[goob]

So my guy did the vaccume out the r-12, refilled with hot shot 2, and put a new overload breaker.  It is cooling well now, and as Jim said in another thread, baby steps.  I added some gasket material, because the door was teaked by a breakin. If that doesnt help, will follow kdog and put the thermo capillary back the way it was. If that doesnt work, then new thermo.  After running overnight the condense pan was full, so i am thinking may be the door seal, will see.  Thanks for the advice!

[goob]

So i have turned the thermostat all the way to the left, which should be the warmest setting, and the highest temp is around 30 degrees. Would being that cold cause excess condensation?  I put some stick on insilation on the case so the dorr seals pretty tight now.  The door was teaked by an attepted break in. Also attaching the thermo capillary helped stabilize the temp, not bouncing aout 20 to 30 degrees. The condense pan fills about half way in about 12 hours

[MoonDawg]

So i have turned the thermostat all the way to the left, which should be the warmest setting, and the highest temp is around 30 degrees.

        Turning the dial all the way to the left should switch the machine off!
   
        The contacts may be stuck open so for now whack it a few times with the handle of a screwdriver for a temporary fix, then order a new one.

       

[goob]

Sorry was not clear, yea all the way left, it clicks and shuts off, all the way left without turning off keeps it around 30 according to my cheap fridge thermometer.  Will order new one, thanks

[goob]

So before I order a new thermostat, is one better than the other, contact or non contact.  Mine appears to be contact, but the warmest it goes is about 32 degrees. Ok for beer but am afraid I might freeze pop.  Thanks

[goob]

Well got a year out of that recharge and it sprung a leak, dang it.  Am thinking about getting a new compressor deck from Global.  Anyone have experience with  them?

[Jim]

I had Eric build us one for an V-81 a few years ago and was pleased; however, he is a little pricey compared a few others, so you might shop around...