Is this guy running me up?

[memorylane]

Anyone want to bet this guy just got out foxed. I'll bet we will see this again soon, bidder didn't pay, Bla, Bla Bla. I was in a bidding last week and though someone was running me up so I dropped out and he got it. 2 hours later I got a 2nd chance offer. Thats telling me he new know one was going to pay for it.

[mznb1u]

Just out of curiosity, if you get a collectible at a price you are happy with, then why is it nonsense? Shill bid (or non approved reserve or protection bid) or not, if your happy with the price for a rare peice what's the issue?

If eBay was a real auction, it then you couldn't steal it at then end with a snipe bid with everyone tossing in the real bids. I've seen stuff jump $700 plus with 2 seconds to go, if it was a real auction the auctioneer would then give others a chance to bid again! Not say, sold!

Tim,

I don't disagree with you if I am bidding against people who are really interested in buying the item.  A couple of years ago, I along with several other members were bidding against each other on a Stoner Junior with Gum/Mint Wheel.  I knew what my limit was and I knew I was bidding against other interested parties who intended to buy if they won the bid.  In that case the bids did jump back and forth right to the very end and I believe it was ducatihammer who got the machine and did a great restoration on it.

When you have a seller or his shill intentionally running up the bid on an item that clearly does not have the same number of interested parties, I have a problem with that because they are artificially inflating the price of the item and manipulating the auction.  Not to mention violating the rules that EBay sets forth in the user agreement.  You don't see the owners of Barrett-Jackson placing false bids on the vehicles they are trying to auction just to run up the price.  If they did nobody would be interested in buying items at their auction.  In any event, it looks like the shill got out-foxed by Curtis and I am happy to see that happen every now and then.  The seller probably looks like this   right now because the couple of legitimate bidders who might have been interested in paying a fair price for the item can very clearly see that he or someone he knew manipulated the auction.  And now in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "You get nothing, you lose!  Good day, Sir!"

  Tim

[MaineT]

You don't see the owners of Barrett-Jackson placing false bids on the vehicles they are trying to auction just to run up the price.

Barrett-Jackson is a real auction, and doesn't decide if they want to sell the car until they see what the offers are. The bid is an offer to buy, and the auctioneer is not requited to sell all items at the offered price.

I go to auctions all of the time and they don't announce the reserved protection amounts. There are left bids and reserves that you are bidding against in the "book".

This is eBay not a well advertised specialty auction. Just because there isn't interest in the 7 days out of the 365 days of the year that it is going, doesn't mean its not worth what they want for it.

[mznb1u]

This is eBay not a well advertised specialty auction. Just because there isn't interest in the 7 days out of the 365 days of the year that it is going, doesn't mean its not worth what they want for it.

Again Tim, I don't disagree with you.  However, if the seller of this Pepsi cooler knew he had a minimum, then he should have placed a reserve on the item.  I don't have a problem with wanting to get the most for a machine when I am the seller.  I know what my bottom line is and if I was using E-Bay, that would llikely be my reserve.  When I list something on CL, I give myself room to negotiate so I can hopefully get what I need to out of an item.  Had this guy done that, I would have no problems.  It is the shill bidding that bothers me.  If he was firm on a bottom line price, then he could have used the options in EBay to protect that bottom line instead of playing games with a couple of legitimate buyers who would have likely bid the price up on their own.

  Tim

[davethebirdman]

I'm on the fence here..

As a seller

Shill biding is often used to bypass the huge fees eBay charge for reserves. By placing a reserve on an item the seller automatically restricts the number of interested parties
for his item. A low start bid will usually drum up a lot of early interest. Most of it from people who wanted it for nothing but it can also entice real bidders. At the same time the seller
wants to make sure he doesn't end up giving the thing away. He then gets his mate to drop a few bids in to the level he feels comfortable at.

As a buyer

I want to get the thing for the smallest amount possible. I live in the hope that everyone else has not seen it and that I am the only one interested. I don't show my hand until the end
and wack in a bid I feel comfortable at. Or I bid early and pray that it will last the distance.

As a member on eBay since 1999 I can recall the days when there really were bargains to be had. Not so many people around then. Today you pay the market price and bargains are few and far between. An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Shill bidding doesn't take that away. If you want it enough you'll out bid.

I have been to a fair few real auctions and believe me the auctioneer is running up the bid with fictitious people in the room to a level he feels comfortable at. Shill bidding...

I know its illegal etc and I do not say that I subscribe to it. Over here in the UK eBay have even prosecuted people for it.

[MaineT]

Again Tim, I don't disagree with you.  However, if the seller of this Pepsi cooler knew he had a minimum, then he should have placed a reserve on the item.  I don't have a problem with wanting to get the most for a machine when I am the seller.  I know what my bottom line is and if I was using E-Bay, that would llikely be my reserve.  When I list something on CL, I give myself room to negotiate so I can hopefully get what I need to out of an item.  Had this guy done that, I would have no problems.  It is the shill bidding that bothers me.  If he was firm on a bottom line price, then he could have used the options in EBay to protect that bottom line instead of playing games with a couple of legitimate buyers who would have likely bid the price up on their own.

  Tim

I would agree with that if ebay didn't announce the reserve by saying reserve not met. The problem is that it is ebay and they announce that you are bidding against a reserve so nobody will bid. If you ended the auction then found out that the reserve wasn't met, that would be more fair. That is the problem with the options that you are referring to, you can not have a silent reserve without a protection bid.

[VMAXMAN]

I always list the reserve price in my auction listing...no big govt secret.

[mznb1u]

Point well taken Tim.  Hadn't thought about the Ebay reserve from that angle.   Dave and Vaxman also raise some good points too.  I still prefer CL to EBay because you can deal direct and the seller does not get tapped for the fees.  Of course, the exposure is limited but with Search Tempest and some of the aps out there that is becoming less of a problem.  I do agree that the days of the sweet deal are few and far between but they are still out there every now and again!

  Tim

[VMAXMAN]

speaking of CL....I have an early 70s pepsi menu board I'm gonna be listing soon....anyone have an interest in these? I'll post pics in the proper section if so.
I have Brian (seven181) checking with a friend of his to see if he wants it....also have a v56 squaretop that cools great!

[Creighton]

Good points by all.
Anymore I just bid my max when I see the auction.
If that gets it bought great. Goes higher no big deal.
Another one is out there.
Creighton