Is this guy running me up?

[memorylane]

What do you guys think, is this guy that owns this Pepsi Cooler running me up, I was the high bidder under the guy that become a member today and new how to figure out where my high bid was? Sounds funny to me. How can I tell.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281045836339

[Chris]

It looks like it to me. Strange how the one your bidding against just started recently.

[memorylane]

Thats what I though, you don't become a member and the first time you bid, you take it one bid at a time till you get to where I had a max bid. Wish I could find out for sure???
Any ideas guys

[jholmgren]

Thats what I though, you don't become a member and the first time you bid, you take it one bid at a time till you get to where I had a max bid. Wish I could find out for sure???
Any ideas guys

Try reporting it to eBay's "Safe Harbor" - I did that a few years ago to someone that was obviously shill bidding me.

[MaineT]

Retract your bid and dump it on him. Perfectly legal per ebay but you have to do it before the last 24 hours.

Then wait until the last minute to bid, never bid early.

[Chris]

I agree with Tim. Never bid early. Get the suckers out of the way and bid last minute. If it runs up to far then you don't need it. That is how I play eBay. There are some that will drive up the prices so I have to set a limit that I will go on something and once it goes over that I move on. It's hard to do but you will save yourself a lot of money.....

[memorylane]

I do that as well but there were to many bidders that were getting cought up in the bidding so put in a high enough bid to knock out them then come in in the end with the real money. I reported this guy, I still think he had someone run it up to get it over a thousand.

[johnieG]

Yep, I'd drop a dime on this one...

[Pat Pixley]

It cool but I would retrack my bid then come back with the last two minutes aution and stomp that A$$ H_L_ into the ground
or take a pass on it and see if it show back up a week later.
 

[MoonDawg]

       It's pretty obvious the new bidder is in bed with the seller, so retracting that bid would have knocked their price back a few hundred.
       Unfortunately a legitimate bidder has now stepped in and overbid them.............
just what they wanted 

[SLIDER]

This type of crap is unfortunately becoming the EBay norm.
Most everything is always shill bid up.

[jbrooks]

ebay sucks, they cant handle the size of their community so they do nothing to shill bidders.

[stuntpilot]

The real question here is what's it worth? The days of getting a nice collectible piece like this on E-Bay for half price are long gone.

It doesn't really matter if a shill bidder bids it up, this piece is going to go for what it's worth or slightly below,  he was outbid by someone legitimate. I'm assuming your the guy with 1244 feedbacks right.
There's just too many collectors that know what these are worth even though I'm not one of them. A quick google search could give me the answer in an instant.

I've done alot of selling on E-Bay and this is common practice of a new bidder who doesn't have a clue how to play the game, bids it up 25.00 at a time until he outbids you.
If he would have known your bid he would have outbid you with one bid instead of 10. There's only one way to know when you get close to the top bidders bid is when it falls within the raised bid requirement, even if your the seller.

When you need to complain is if he raises the bid up and then cancels the auction at the last minute, that's when you've been found guilty, the seller doesn't want to get stuck buying his own piece and then paying the fees.
The only time of an auction that you should pay attention to is the last 30 seconds, if your bidding before that your just wasting your time and driving up the price yourself.
Put the E-bay app on your smartphone so you get alerted 15 minutes before the end of an auction and then determine if the price is still right, then bid accordingly.

Looking at the bid profile you could say that anyone of these three could be driving the price up and be a shill bidder.
1244 has 13 bids
289 has 5
357 has 4
All of these bidders are just driving the price up on themselves if they are legitimate.

[Funtronics]

Im waiting to the end to put my $2,000 bid in. 

[stuntpilot]

I'll go $2500  And I despise Pepsi, I'm a 25 year Coke man. Also notice how the guy put Coke, Coca-Cola in the title to bring in all the collectors, another good selling trick.

I was watching a Dole Super last week, guy had a $729 starting price and had a bid the first day.  This is double what it's worth, it was nice but not $729 nice! The last 10 seconds it went to $739

I forgot to mention you have the fools out there also.

This piece can't be worth $1025 can it? I guess I could Goggle it but I don't want too.

[MaineT]

Its worth whatever the market will bear. The bigger and more important question is, why would anyone want such an UGLY cooler!! I saw that ad hour after it was listed and that's what I thought. I never thought it would be in a bidding war for a non-embossed generic odd looking cooler.

[tooth350]

Just to let you guys know     the high bidder has an automatic bid and thats why it looks like he's bidding against himself and raising the price, if you unlock the automatic bids you'll see what i'am talking about.

[Seven181]

This happens more often than you would think. It's a set up for sure. Either the guy knows the person or he set this name up and started bidding. They are def driving up the price. I hope you get it for a good price, but games are being played. I could see this ending and then in a week or two, guess what........it's listed again!


Brian

[mznb1u]

That zero feedback bidder is definitely a shill.  The pattern of bidding bears it out.  Hope you still get a good price Curtis.  This is one of the reasons that I rarely bid on collectibles on EBay anymore.  Too much nonsense going on.

  Tim

[MaineT]

That zero feedback bidder is definitely a shill.  The pattern of bidding bears it out.  Hope you still get a good price Curtis.  This is one of the reasons that I rarely bid on collectibles on EBay anymore.  Too much nonsense going on.

  Tim

Just out of curiosity, if you get a collectible at a price you are happy with, then why is it nonsense? Shill bid (or non approved reserve or protection bid) or not, if your happy with the price for a rare peice what's the issue?

If eBay was a real auction, it then you couldn't steal it at then end with a snipe bid with everyone tossing in the real bids. I've seen stuff jump $700 plus with 2 seconds to go, if it was a real auction the auctioneer would then give others a chance to bid again! Not say, sold!

[memorylane]

Anyone want to bet this guy just got out foxed. I'll bet we will see this again soon, bidder didn't pay, Bla, Bla Bla. I was in a bidding last week and though someone was running me up so I dropped out and he got it. 2 hours later I got a 2nd chance offer. Thats telling me he new know one was going to pay for it.

[mznb1u]

Just out of curiosity, if you get a collectible at a price you are happy with, then why is it nonsense? Shill bid (or non approved reserve or protection bid) or not, if your happy with the price for a rare peice what's the issue?

If eBay was a real auction, it then you couldn't steal it at then end with a snipe bid with everyone tossing in the real bids. I've seen stuff jump $700 plus with 2 seconds to go, if it was a real auction the auctioneer would then give others a chance to bid again! Not say, sold!

Tim,

I don't disagree with you if I am bidding against people who are really interested in buying the item.  A couple of years ago, I along with several other members were bidding against each other on a Stoner Junior with Gum/Mint Wheel.  I knew what my limit was and I knew I was bidding against other interested parties who intended to buy if they won the bid.  In that case the bids did jump back and forth right to the very end and I believe it was ducatihammer who got the machine and did a great restoration on it.

When you have a seller or his shill intentionally running up the bid on an item that clearly does not have the same number of interested parties, I have a problem with that because they are artificially inflating the price of the item and manipulating the auction.  Not to mention violating the rules that EBay sets forth in the user agreement.  You don't see the owners of Barrett-Jackson placing false bids on the vehicles they are trying to auction just to run up the price.  If they did nobody would be interested in buying items at their auction.  In any event, it looks like the shill got out-foxed by Curtis and I am happy to see that happen every now and then.  The seller probably looks like this   right now because the couple of legitimate bidders who might have been interested in paying a fair price for the item can very clearly see that he or someone he knew manipulated the auction.  And now in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "You get nothing, you lose!  Good day, Sir!"

  Tim

[MaineT]

You don't see the owners of Barrett-Jackson placing false bids on the vehicles they are trying to auction just to run up the price.

Barrett-Jackson is a real auction, and doesn't decide if they want to sell the car until they see what the offers are. The bid is an offer to buy, and the auctioneer is not requited to sell all items at the offered price.

I go to auctions all of the time and they don't announce the reserved protection amounts. There are left bids and reserves that you are bidding against in the "book".

This is eBay not a well advertised specialty auction. Just because there isn't interest in the 7 days out of the 365 days of the year that it is going, doesn't mean its not worth what they want for it.

[mznb1u]

This is eBay not a well advertised specialty auction. Just because there isn't interest in the 7 days out of the 365 days of the year that it is going, doesn't mean its not worth what they want for it.

Again Tim, I don't disagree with you.  However, if the seller of this Pepsi cooler knew he had a minimum, then he should have placed a reserve on the item.  I don't have a problem with wanting to get the most for a machine when I am the seller.  I know what my bottom line is and if I was using E-Bay, that would llikely be my reserve.  When I list something on CL, I give myself room to negotiate so I can hopefully get what I need to out of an item.  Had this guy done that, I would have no problems.  It is the shill bidding that bothers me.  If he was firm on a bottom line price, then he could have used the options in EBay to protect that bottom line instead of playing games with a couple of legitimate buyers who would have likely bid the price up on their own.

  Tim

[davethebirdman]

I'm on the fence here..

As a seller

Shill biding is often used to bypass the huge fees eBay charge for reserves. By placing a reserve on an item the seller automatically restricts the number of interested parties
for his item. A low start bid will usually drum up a lot of early interest. Most of it from people who wanted it for nothing but it can also entice real bidders. At the same time the seller
wants to make sure he doesn't end up giving the thing away. He then gets his mate to drop a few bids in to the level he feels comfortable at.

As a buyer

I want to get the thing for the smallest amount possible. I live in the hope that everyone else has not seen it and that I am the only one interested. I don't show my hand until the end
and wack in a bid I feel comfortable at. Or I bid early and pray that it will last the distance.

As a member on eBay since 1999 I can recall the days when there really were bargains to be had. Not so many people around then. Today you pay the market price and bargains are few and far between. An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Shill bidding doesn't take that away. If you want it enough you'll out bid.

I have been to a fair few real auctions and believe me the auctioneer is running up the bid with fictitious people in the room to a level he feels comfortable at. Shill bidding...

I know its illegal etc and I do not say that I subscribe to it. Over here in the UK eBay have even prosecuted people for it.

[MaineT]

Again Tim, I don't disagree with you.  However, if the seller of this Pepsi cooler knew he had a minimum, then he should have placed a reserve on the item.  I don't have a problem with wanting to get the most for a machine when I am the seller.  I know what my bottom line is and if I was using E-Bay, that would llikely be my reserve.  When I list something on CL, I give myself room to negotiate so I can hopefully get what I need to out of an item.  Had this guy done that, I would have no problems.  It is the shill bidding that bothers me.  If he was firm on a bottom line price, then he could have used the options in EBay to protect that bottom line instead of playing games with a couple of legitimate buyers who would have likely bid the price up on their own.

  Tim

I would agree with that if ebay didn't announce the reserve by saying reserve not met. The problem is that it is ebay and they announce that you are bidding against a reserve so nobody will bid. If you ended the auction then found out that the reserve wasn't met, that would be more fair. That is the problem with the options that you are referring to, you can not have a silent reserve without a protection bid.

[VMAXMAN]

I always list the reserve price in my auction listing...no big govt secret.

[mznb1u]

Point well taken Tim.  Hadn't thought about the Ebay reserve from that angle.   Dave and Vaxman also raise some good points too.  I still prefer CL to EBay because you can deal direct and the seller does not get tapped for the fees.  Of course, the exposure is limited but with Search Tempest and some of the aps out there that is becoming less of a problem.  I do agree that the days of the sweet deal are few and far between but they are still out there every now and again!

  Tim

[VMAXMAN]

speaking of CL....I have an early 70s pepsi menu board I'm gonna be listing soon....anyone have an interest in these? I'll post pics in the proper section if so.
I have Brian (seven181) checking with a friend of his to see if he wants it....also have a v56 squaretop that cools great!

[Creighton]

Good points by all.
Anymore I just bid my max when I see the auction.
If that gets it bought great. Goes higher no big deal.
Another one is out there.
Creighton

[stuntpilot]

Its worth whatever the market will bear. The bigger and more important question is, why would anyone want such an UGLY cooler!! I saw that ad hour after it was listed and that's what I thought. I never thought it would be in a bidding war for a non-embossed generic odd looking cooler.

My thoughts exactly!

We have a shop in a building with 6 other tenents, two of those tenents are large E-bay sellers. One of them does over 2 million a year in sales thru E-Bay. 99 percent of his auctions are Buy it now auctions but every once in awhile he starts one at .99, he says 50 percent of the time those go for more than the buy it now listings. Bidding wars are crazy.

[MoonDawg]

     
      This guy only sells parts and tools on E bay. When he first listed this cooler, he probably recieved a ton of requests for a buy it now price and he didn't have a number.

       His research would dig up very few of these sold or valued, and the condition of his was above average...... so he got excited.

      But after playing this little game at least he knows what his cooler is really worth,
3 bids came in at around $1000.

            Might not be a bad idea to contact him before he re-lists it.

[BONOVOX]

I was somewhat interested in the item, and told memorylane so, but I was sceptical of those 0 bids, and although it just passed my limit, I didnt want to bid against MemoryLane, AND I didnt feel right about how the bidding was going so I never even placed a bid.

Classic example I think of Ebay shill bids.

[SIGNGUY]

I'm not 100% sure how the eBay fee structure works.. but are people using "shill" bidding as a way to get out of putting a reserve on something?
I know they charge 25.00 to put a reserve on an auction.. I think.. or maybe it's percentage thing?

so maybe this guy was trying to cheat the system, put it out there, put no reserve but he knew he'd not take less than $XXXX for it.. so he bid it up to that amount to "Skirt" the Fee structure?

not condoning, just trying to understand.

basically it comes down to this...if a collectable and somewhat valuable item comes on on eBay and you see the starting bid at 5.00, don't expect that you're going to get a deal.. Shill bidding, reserves, what ever you want to call it.. sellers will get the most they can out of their item typically.

now on the other hand.. I have 4-5 items listed on ebay,, yes they are collectable.. but I started the bidding at 5.00 and no reserve... some of the trays book for 200-400 dollars but I'm going to let the bidders decide what they can or want to pay... I may get 10.00 for them or several hundred.. we'll see.. and that is what is should be like..

Stepping down off the soapbox ..  

[MaineT]

The reality is, when we sell something we all want the most someone will pay. If I dump in $200 for you auction and walk away and its worth $400 and since it is a perpetual auction, not a single event, the other players are on vacation or whatever, so I win it for $5. By putting in a bid, or offer of $200 to buy your tray, it takes someone else to maximize and realize that offer. If you offered $200 at a real auction, that would be the high bid, ebay uses proxy bidding to allow automatic bidding and not accept your offer of $200 as a legitimate bid like a real auction would. Real auctions do not start everything at $5, no reserve or during a snowstorm you would be buying corvette's for $5.

Since you have to pay insertion fees based on the starting bid, or reserve price, that insertion fee could be quite high.

In this case, the buyer did not need to know I want $XXXX, but someone legitimately offered a higher amount and the seller wanted to maximized that offer by bidding it up.

[mznb1u]

during a snowstorm you would be buying corvette's for $5.

Let me know when that snowstorm is going to be!   I'll take two!

  Tim

[Kilroy]

I honestly can't tell you if it was shill bidding or a newbie not aware of the inside tricks of Ebay. Shrug. i was once an Ebayer with a zero feedback, and I've run up  bids in 5 or $10 increments trying to get the highesatbisd  with the least amount of my money.