Cavalier 51

[90grad]

All,

I've been following a Cavalier 51 auction on eBay.  It was on once before and received no bids for a $500 starting price.  The guy relisted it, starting at $99 with a reserve.  Turns out the reserve was $500 (shocker).  I bid up to $350, but it never got above $305.  I emailed the guy and he said for $400, it's mine.  The wife supports me on this (she's so cool), so we just have to work out the details of picking it up (it's 50 miles from me).  Hopefully, I did okay on this.  Walters says average price is $650.

Here are the links to the auctions.  The second one shows an inside shot.

C-51 #1

C-51 #2

[BrianB]

Congrats, Wayne!!!! That's great. I have really enjoyed working on mine so far. I know that Mcarter did a really nice restoration on one. I was goofing around on colamachines.com and was looking at the restoration project pictures and found his machine and finnaly put 2 and 2 together (and got 5!?) and made the connection between the names and the geographical location.

So....I'm sure that he'd be more than willing to lend his expertise when it comes to Cav 51 specific questions.

[halehouse]

Great Wayne!  I knew you were watching it.  I look forward to hearing what it is like when you get it home.

[petey64]

very cool machine congrats

[Eric]

Yeah! Congrats!!!. Post some images ASAP! That's a nice machine....
Going to do it all in red?.....

Eric

[MoonDawg]

In the description the seller states that it cools well.  Gee's I don't see a compressor?

[90grad]

Eric,

Yep.  When it gets painted, it will be in all-red.  I like the all-red machines better.  

Glen,

I see the power cord, so I thought the compressor was towards the back in the shadows.  If it ain't there when I get there, I ain't buying it!

[coke_and_stuff]

If you get it home and it doesnt have a cooling unit LMK

Joey

[Creighton]

Interesting. Here is a swiped pic from Matts restoration on the other board that is about the same angle. Looks to me like the compressor should be visible in your pics.

Belt, coin mech and everything else appears to be there. A replacement/rebuilt deck is a good idea anyway. Price adjusted of course. Sorry if this breaks any rules.
Creighton

[firemun]

Call me crazy if you like, but the cord that is visible looks like the one that runs the fan in the cooling area, not one that runs the compressor.  The fan in the cooling box does not wire into the compressor like the later models, it had a seperate cord.
jeff

[Jim]

Wayne,

I'm coming in a little late here, but it appears the two auctions are for the SAME machine...?
And as stated previously, the condensing unit is missing!
You might to adjust the price if the machine is supposed to "cool well"...

[johnieG]

The electrical cord you guys see in the one picture (rear right side of the machine) is indeed from the evaporator motors electrical lead, which should run down behind the condensor cover, all the way down to  the compressors electrical junction box, I hate to say it, but methinks yon machine is sans a compressor at the very least, or its slammed against the rear of the compartment out of view (maybe some broken mounting bolts) hope it isn't so, let us know whats what! hmmmmm.  '>

The restored example has a modified cooling deck with the condensor assy mounted right on the deck as shown, an original C51 will have a large (simular to a standard refrigerator) air cooled (convection cooled) condensor mounted behind the large rectangular cover shown in the auctions pictures.

[90grad]

Okay, now I am scared.  I have emailed the guy and asked if the compressor is there and explained the difference between the compressor/condensor and the evaporator.  I was thinking the plug end of the cord was just hanging on the top of the shroud on the back of the machine (a place to put it when they moved the machine outside to take a picture).
I've emailed the guy.  I also have his cell # and will give him a call this morning.

Jim,

Yes, they are two different auctions for the same machine.  It got no bids the first time, and he relisted it.

Guys, I can't thank you enough for watching out for others.  This site is great, as are the people.  What would be a good offer if it is missing the compressor?

[90grad]

All,

I took the open-door shot of the machine and it looks like something is down under there (maybe wishful thinking on my part).  Here's the photo with the brightness/contrast adjusted.  I don't have a good photo editor.

[johnieG]

Quote (90grad @ Aug. 18 2005,6:18)

Okay, now I am scared.  I have emailed the guy and asked if the compressor is there and explained the difference between the compressor/condensor and the evaporator.  I was thinking the plug end of the cord was just hanging on the top of the shroud on the back of the machine (a place to put it when they moved the machine outside to take a picture). I've emailed the guy.  I also have his cell # and will give him a call this morning. Jim, Yes, they are two different auctions for the same machine.  It got no bids the first time, and he relisted it. Guys, I can't thank you enough for watching out for others.  This site is great, as are the people.  What would be a good offer if it is missing the compressor?

Well, if he accepted $400.00 for supposably complete machine, I can tell you that a used compressor deck will set you back at least $200.00, and a new complete compressor/condensing assembly for R134a will price out close to $300 for a small 1/4 H.P. Coupland/ Tecumseh unit,
plus the time it takes to install it... so offer half, it depends on how bad you want it & what your willing to put into it too.

It looks like a fairly straight machine regardless, he could knockoff at least another $100.00 in my opinion...hope it works out for you...

[firemun]

To my knowledge this is the original compressor in this Cav 51, it looks identical to what is in my other CAV 51 which is also supposedly all original and had been in storage since the early 70's.

Looks like the photo you have does show something, maybe it has already been replaced with one of the new small units?

jeff

[petey64]

This seller needs a swift kick in the !@#$%^& he has been deceptive at best, if he took 400 offer him 200, if he won't tell you that the compressor is missing what else is he hiding.

sins of commision, sins of ommision

[90grad]

All,

Thanks for all the advice and help.  I spoke with the guy via email and he assures me everything is there.  The machine is about 20" deep and if the condensor is a covection-type as JohnieG said, the compressor ball may be lurking in the shadows.  Regardless, I will check it out on Saturday, as the guy is only about 50 miles from me.  I will post later that day to tell you what's the deal.

Thanks again, you all are great.

[BrianB]

Firemun,

The picture you took is really helpfull. It identifies yours as a "newer" model compressor configuration. The one inside 90's is going to be a Frigidaire with the configuration Mr. G described. Looks like this from the backside:

[BrianB]

Here we go:

[90grad]

Brian,

Thanks for the picture and info.  One question (a rather dumb one) for all...

I will be using an appliance dolly to get the machine on/off my truck.  I plan on leaving it on the dolly to haul it.  I will be setting it down.  I know I have to leave it sit up for a while before plugging it in (I did this with my VMC).  My question is, should I put the dolly on the side of the machine so as not to squash the stuff in back or the coin door?

[Jim]

Wayne,

This is more a matter of preference and gaining access to where the machine will be located... However, in your case, you do not want to possibly damage the coils along the back or the sheet metal cover for that matter.

Depending whether you have to pass through a doorway, I would recommend using the side provided the feet(if the legs are still present) can safely remain on the hand-truck/dolly. For a stable ride, remove the leg levelers on the side you are going to use(if present) so better contact with the hand-truck/dolly can be maintained. Then use a tie strap to secure the machine to the hand-truck/dolly. Just a note of caution; the machine can still tip over while strapped to the hand-truck/dolly so be careful while making direction changes!

If no doorways present a problem, then you could place the hand-truck/dolly on the front; just place some padding to help with keeping any damage to a minimum.

I'm not sure what type of hand-truck/dolly you have but mine is made from tubular steel and accepts air conditioning pipe insulation quite well. It's usually black and has a 3/4" - 1" hole. I had to slice mine but some types have a slice already to aid in placing the insulation over the refrigerant lines on residential air conditioning.

[sodaworks]

I too have my hand truck covered with pipe wrap insulation. I works great, customers always comment about going the extra mile to handle machines with care. '>

[90grad]

The dolly is made of tubular steel with a strpa for appliances.  Doorways are no problem.  Thanks for the advice!

[BryanH]

Quote (Jim @ Aug. 19 2005,10:27)

I'm not sure what type of hand-truck/dolly you have but mine is made from tubular steel and accepts air conditioning pipe insulation quite well. It's usually black and has a 3/4" - 1" hole. I had to slice mine but some types have a slice already to aid in placing the insulation over the refrigerant lines on residential air conditioning.

Another great tip.... Thanks Jim!

[BrianB]

Wayne,

Strap the appliance dolly to the non-hinge side. Your Cav 51 is like mine and has the big cover on the back "protecting" the main condensor coil from damage, but, will not facilitate transporting it via dolly.

I got lucky in the fact that my machine had casters. You should have no problem transporting it!!

[90grad]

All,

I picked up the 51 on Saturday.  The machine looked better than the photos.  My guess is it was an inside machine most of its life.  With the expection of one small spot of surface rust in the tank (that will basically wipe away with little effort), the inside looks brand new.  I have some questions, and of course photos.  Here are the questions:

1. It requires 15 cents to vend.  The slug rejector has a two paths, one for a dime and one for a nickel.  The dime path works fine, but the nickel path kicks them out.  I have boiled the rejector and am getting ready to give it another good cleaning to see if it will accept the nickels.  When I take the slug rejector off and look at the crank assembly, I can see the two slots for the coins.  Putting a dime and nickel in there at the same time allows it to turn.  My question is:  Is there any way to make it just a dime, or nickel, machine?  Do you have to take out something in the cranks assembly?  I can take more photos tonight.

2. I plugged it in at the guy's house and it started to cool.  I didn't see any frost on the coil for about 20 minutes.  Is this too long?  When I got it home and let it sit for a day, I set the thermostat on 2 (it has 4 settings, 4 being coldest) and let it sit.  After 1 hour and 40 minutes, the compressor had kicked off and the interior was 38 degrees.  After I opened the door, the compressor kicked back on, so I figured I was in business.  But again, was this too long a time?  I know a guy who has some R-12.

3. The hole for the condensation drain has a hinged cover on it.  The cover is in the compressor area.  Should this stay open all the time with a hose/jar hooked to it?  My other machine just has a hose connected to the drain tube.  I was wondering why the hinged cover.

So, here are some photos.  Overall, I am quite pleased with the machine (my first roundtop).  It will need:

1. New wiring harness
2. Paint on the compressor, and overall eventually
3. Gasket for bottle door
4. Springs for bottle door
5. A good cleaning of the machine and slug rejector

But, I think it's great.

[90grad]

Here is the inside:

[90grad]

Here is the coin mech:

[90grad]

Sorry, forgot the attachment:

[90grad]

Here is the compressor:

[90grad]

And the side:

[Jim]

Wayne,

Glad to hear everything is in good condition!
I apologize for the scare regarding the compressor!

If you can take a photo of the area in the yellow circle, this will help...
There was a recent discussion regarding this type of coin mech and setting on free play very easily. One or two 6-32 screws approx. 1" long can be threaded in where the arrow is pointing. This will move the cam(s) so the crank handle cam can pass by/under thus allowing a free vend.

[90grad]

Jim,

Free vend works fine.  I recall that discussion and pulling back the lever was the first thing I did to check the rest of the mechanism.

I've been reading the coin mech book.  I believe I have a 600 series mech.  I am planning on posting some more photos today to maybe figure out why it's kicking out the nickels.  

Where you have circled on the picture, there are two slots where the coins must sit to trip the lever.  The one closest to the machine is the smaller, dime slot.  I thought maybe this was a dime machine.  So, I put in a dime (both thru the mech and then directly into the slot on the lever mechanism).  It wouldn't vend.  I also tried it with just a nickel in the larger, nickel slot on the vending lever mechanism.  Nothing.  So, I put both a nickel and dime in the respective slots and it worked.  Now, I just can't get the coinc mech to accept nickels.  I'll try to get a picture soon.

[90grad]

Here's the picture of the slug rejector.  I took off the front cover.  The blue arrow indicates where the nickels need to go (behind the plate).  The red arrow indicates where they are going (in front of the plate and out to the coin return).  So, is this plate the issue?

[90grad]

Sorry, forgot the attachment again.

[90grad]

Success!!  I re-read the slug rejector manual and saw where a nickel has to bounce (literally) off an anvil, clear a post, and then proceed into the accepted slot.  I noticed the anvil on my mech was covered by a little, two-prong gizmo (for lack of a better word).  Apparently, said gizmo was installed to give the nickel enough bounce.  I took the gizmo off and the nickels still weren't accepted.  I decreased the bend in the prongs and wham-o, it works.  Tried 20 times (that's the engineer in me) and the nickel was accepted each time.  Here's a photo.

[BrianB]

Wayne,

Looks like a good solid machine. Let me know how things go. This should be mutually beneficial since your machine and mine are exactly alike.

I just recently sent out my coin entry plate to be chromed. I'll let you know how that turns out. If you do send yours or DIY, the plate is made of brass and then chrome over that. It helps to know this so that when you contact the plater who will be doing the work, he'll know what he's working with or what he has to look forward too.

[90grad]

Brian,

Thanks, and the coin mech info is great.  How long does it take for yours to cool (see my earlier post regarding time)?

[Jim]

Also remember that these slug rejectors are designed to function best at a perfect level or plumb both side to side and back to forward depending on which way you perceive things...

If the bar, located in the circled area, is split, you should have two 6-32 holes where the arrow points enabling you to unlock one or the other price. Ex. The slot closest to the machine door is for the dimes as you stated, well, screw in a 1" 6-32 into this side and the coin mech will only accept nickels, thus a 5 cent machine. Do the same thing for the nickel side after removing the dime side 6-32 and thread it into the nickel side and you'll have a dime only machine that vends at 10 cents. Remove both screws and you have a 15 cent machine.
The only thing that can throw a monkey wrench in here is if the circled area has a solid bar, then chances are this is a 10 cent mech and requires either one dime or two nickels...
Hopefully some of this makes sense and isn't redundant...

[Eric]

Wow!.... A great ending... was begining to worry about the compressor if it was there
or not and if they were trying to slide something by... but it seems they just
didn't take good photos and didn't know what they had....
Great machine for a first round top! Congrats!

Eric

[sodaworks]

Glad to see the comp. is there.

[90grad]

Terry/Guys,

What is your take on the cool-down time I mentioned?

[MoonDawg]

Quote (90grad @ Aug. 22 2005,8:52)

Terry/Guys, What is your take on the cool-down time I mentioned?

First time takes a long time to reach temp. As long as it shuts itself off...........it's fine.