Vendo56 squaretop bottle door light help

[SodaShopNick]

I am working on finishing up a Vendo56 square-top in which I restored the inside, but left the outside original.  But I am having an issue with the bottle door light.  I did not do a great job of pictures of this before I took it apart, but it really did not matter as it did not work then and that was because it appears it was never even connected.  The wires appear to not have even been stripped or cut from the bottle door light.  I have some pictures coming, but my question is where do I connect the bottle light door wires to?  I assume it splices/connects into the line coming from the coin mech.  In fact that line is cut where it appears it should be spliced together, but never was.  I am hoping someone can confirm if this is correct and if not how it is supposed to connect.

[SodaShopNick]

Coin mech line:

[SodaShopNick]

Bottle door light:

[SodaShopNick]

Any thoughts on this?  Any help would be greatly appreciated as I only have a few more things to get my first restoration done (even though it was just the insides). 

[Ltransam]

Ok I'm NO Electrician but I don't see a ballast for the light ? And the wires that would be going to the ballast should have 110 -115 voltage  to the ballast

[SodaShopNick]

Hi Ltransam,  Thanks for the response.  Does a standard light bulb need a ballast (I am no electrician either)?   I know the front light up panel has a ballast on it, but you cannot see it from the back.

[Sarman47]

If it's an incandescent light bulb. No.

The principle of incandescent lighting is that a current flows through a filament resulting in extreme heating of the filament and consequently light being emitted from the super heated filament.

Lighting requiring ballasts are commonly fluorescent and HID lighting. The purpose of the ballast is to provide a spike of current to trigger a chemical reaction in substances such as neon and such.

[Creighton]

The factory light required a ballast. Far better LED solutions are now available. Suggest looking into those.
Creighton

[tkaz]

I don't think this is a fluorescent light, just an incandescent in the top of the vend column with a candelabra base right?  No ballast needed for the incandescent, just need to find a hot and common wire to hook into.  Any clue where the cut wires in the door go to?

[SodaShopNick]

Thanks for the responses.  This is just an incandescent bulb so I don't think this requires a ballast.  tkaz, the wires that are clipped in the picture go to the front of the coin door and connect to the coin mech connection which also has the front light panel going to it.   Would I just try to connect into that where it is clipped?  It is weird because those wires look like they were clipped to connect to something and then never done.  Same with the wires coming from the light.  In fact those have not even been stripped.  It is odd because when I took this think apart it was apparent this was like this originally or at least for a very long time.  If you need pictures of the connection at the coin door I can provide them.  Thanks for all your help.

[tkaz]

You can find a wiring diagram in the downloads section of the main page (you'll need to login there first) http://soda-machines.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=95&Itemid=61

I know it says 63/90/126, but the wiring should be just about the same.  If you have a multimeter or test tool, you can check for 120V at the two cut lines at the door harness.  If the meter has a continuity or ohm tester on it, you can verify where those lines go to in the Jones plug just to make sure.

[SodaShopNick]

tkaz, thanks for all the help.  I have downloaded the manual and will check it.  It does appear somehow it has to connect into those clipped wires. 

[MoonDawg]

      I have a hard time believing Vendo left those live 120v wires cut and exposed. 

[SodaShopNick]

So I ended up connecting the door vend light into the snipped wires from the jones plug and after changing out the bulb it worked.  Of course now though the light panel does not work.  Let me correct this, it never worked to begin with.  So I changed out the fluorescent bulb and it came on for like 10 seconds and then went out (no flicker, just dead).  Changed out the starter and no change.   I need to recheck the wiring, but assuming if the wiring is good I assume it must be the ballast?  Does anyone know where I can get a replacement ballast? I can't read the back of the original real well, but it looks like it says CAT SP2 / For 14 15 20 W. Lamp / .35 Amp 118 V 60 CY.  I saw a mention of in another thread of 1000bulbs, but having a hard time matching this type.  I guess I could look at Lowes and/or Home Depot, but feel like they might not carry this type.  Any thoughts are appreciated.

[cola62]

I buy all my ballasts from robertsondirect.com.  Also the wires you mentioned at the coin door may have been for an on off switch.  A lot of the vendo 63's have a switch mounted inside the coin door to cut the lights at the sign and at the bottle door on and off.

[johnieG]

The VMC VF56 uses a 7-10watt 120 volt candelabra-base Incandescent lamp in the bottle-door area if it's equipped with one, many weren't. ( an example of one that wouldn't have a bottle door light is the "thrift-vend" model it also had a painted steel sign instead of a light-up marquee).

FYI...one explanation given for how the florescence lamps ballast works is in error, it doesn't utilize any "chemical reaction", it is merely regulates the current through the lamps vacuum tube after the filaments vaporizes/ionizes the mercury inside to lamp to allow it to "strike an arc" ( which is an electrical short as far as the system voltage & current is concerned) so then the ballast "throttles" the Arc's current so it doesn't blow the tube to shards of glass or tip a circuit-breaker of fuse.  Once the mercury is a glowing plasma, it produces ultra-violet light which is converted to visible white-light by the phosphor coating inside the lamps glass envelope. (IE:tube) nothing chemically changes inside the lamp. Nothing like a little lightning in a bottle to brighten your day. (esoteric isn't it?) 

[SodaShopNick]

cola62 - thanks for the response.  I will check that site for a ballast.
johnieG - thanks for info on the vendo door light.  I am glad I got it working as it looks pretty cool.  Now if I can only get the light up marque working, which looks even cooler, I will be all set.

[Fire708]

On my pepsi56 I changed out all the electrical parts for the marquee light. New ballast, sockets, and starter. I also adde a switch behind the coin door so I could turn it off if needed.
I didn't trust 40 year old wiring.

[SodaShopNick]

Cola62,

So maybe a stupid question, but I just want to confirm I order the correct replacement.  I found the following which "appears" to be a replacement:    http://www.robertsondirect.com/CC1420-A-P10932.aspx .    It is described as "mBallast, Fluorescent, Preheat Start, T8 or T12 (F20T12), 1 Lamp, 14-20 Watt, NPF, 120Vac, 60 Hz".  The specs from the original ballast are "CAT SP2 / For 14 15 20 W. Lamp / .35 Amp 118 V 60 CY".

As always any help is very appreciated.

[cola62]

Looks like you got it right to me.

[SodaShopNick]

Cola62, thanks for you response.  I will get it ordered and see what happens.    Thanks again to all of your for your help. 

[SodaShopNick]

So, installed the new ballast and no luck.  So far I have a new ballast, new starter & new bulb.  With the original starter, original ballast and new bulb I got a bright light right when I pulled it in, but then it went out and no luck since.  I notice the original bulb (F14T12D) and sticker on the light up support state use a daylight bulb only.  The bulb I got is a cool white (F14T12C).  Is there a difference (even though the cool light did come on initially)?   From what I am able to find out it refers to temperature where a cool white is around 4000K and a daylight is about 6000K.   As always thanks for any help. 

[johnieG]

The Cool-white lamp comes with sunglasses & cant be used after memorial day..or something like that..

[cola62]

Daylight, Cool White, Soft White are all just preferences of the glow of the light. Any of these are fine.  You must not be getting power to the ballast if you have replaced everything. I would test the wire to see if it has power to it. You can use a simple light tester if you have one. Test the power source wire coming to the fixture. (Be careful not to let the wires touch each other.) Just touch the tester leads to the hot and neutral wire coming in.  If you have power coming in then it could be your starter holder or the light fixture itself since you have already replaced the ballast and the starter. Be sure all the connections are tight.

[SodaShopNick]

Cola62, thanks for the help.  I will check the lines next.  The fact that the light went on initially tells me it at least had power for a short time.  But, i did have to reconnect everything when I put this all back together and so maybe there is just a loose connection. 

[SodaShopNick]

The saga continues.  I checked power first at the connector to the jones plug (coming from the light up sign) and there is power.  I then checked power at the fluorescent tube holders/clips and I am getting power there.  I guess I could have a bad fluorescent tube as it was new, but was the same bulb that came up when I had the old ballast and then went off.   I will pick up another bulb and try it next.

[SodaShopNick]

Good News....one new ballast, one new starter and TWO new bulbs and I finally see the light!!!!  I guess for some reason when I put the 1st new bulb in with the original starter and ballast it must have took the bulb out due to one or both being bad.   A picture is coming, but thanks to everyone for your help.  I have said it before and I will say it again, there are a lot of reasons I got into this hobby but one reason I stay and that is because of this discussion group. 

[SodaShopNick]

Here is a picture.  It actually has the marque in it, but you cannot read it due to the glare.

[tkaz]

Nice to see it up and lit!  Always kind of frustrating and piss-you-off-funny when it's the least common denominator going bad twice...at least you now know the wiring, ballast and starter are all good and parts you probably should have replaced anyways.

I once spent hours under the dash of my 65 Nova after fixing the dash cluster trying to figure out why it wouldn't start, every damn thing checked out...turns out I didn't shift it back into park after moving the shifter out of the way putting the cluster in!