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Author Topic: 20 amp or 30amp  (Read 35313 times)
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globalcompressors
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2013, 07:47:17 pm »

okay Man.... you win.

I ain't got nuthin'..... down

hahahahahah
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Rebel
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 08:25:04 pm »

Hey Derp (Derp=newbie in this case) 1st; I'm just warning you in a way that will get your attention, so I'm not going to sugar coat it...  blush two more pennies in the fuse box wont solve anything...so on we go.

2nd; you're not stupid at all, just not fully informed & looking for answers. PS I'm a Journeyman electrician, I work with 480/3 phase all day, so I don't F_around at all when it comes to electricity.  I want you to be safe.  You work with automotive systems, so you know most of the basics, this is good.

you need to know your machines amp draw. if you ID plate is missing, there is usually another plate on the Compressor deck itself, if that's gone or unreadable, then we're on our own.

So, anyway, if you have the machine on a 20 amp breaker & it's tripping, ( assuming it's not a GFI-breaker) then you will see a momentary surge of current upon startup maybe as much as 20+ amps & it should then drop down to about 4-8 amps typically within about 1-2 seconds MAX, depending on what size your compressor is.  

If it starts with a high Amp draw & stays there, then either it's mechanically seized up, ( called a locked rotor) the start/run relay is stuck/bad, or your run winding is open. But, if the breakers tripping before the compressors over current "clicks" off, then you have a hard short somewhere. unplug the machine.

I'd take the terminals off of the compressor & OHM check between each & the metal of the compressor housing to check for shorted windings, ( scratch through the paint to bare metal) anything other than infinity ( an open circuit, you know the drill)  it's a trashed compressor,

next measure between each of the terminals , you should be able to see both the start winding, run winding & common terminal respectively, you can see the pinout ID on the "pinned" topic at the top of the "refrigeration"  discussion area. if it checks out OK, proceed....

Go to home depot, go down the electrical aisle & get a handy dandy appliance "plug in line load" tester, it costs about $25.00  You plug it into the wall outlet & plug your machine into it with the thermostat in the off position, the display can be set for Amps or Watts, (you of course will be looking at the Amps draw) you should make sure the machine is about the only big appliance on that breakers line.

With the machine now plugged into the Load tester & the compressor OFF (via the thermostat) you will see the machines load on the line ( the evaporator fan, coinmech load, the lightup sign, etc.) make a note of it, It should read about maybe 2-amps....Now turn the thermostat ON & note the Amp draw, (hopefully before the breaker pops) a locked compressor will read high & stay there until the overload trips out ( sometimes it's also called the Clik-ette) or the houses circuit breaker trips. if so, it's going to have to be determined if the compressors really locked, of you have a bad start/run relay, an overcharged system. etc. See what you get & proceed from here.
 

JohnieG,,undertand all the info you have shared and by the way,,,have been called worse.....I think.lol Will check all this weekend and really do appreciate your and everyone else who shared their thoughts.
There is one more thing I'd like to share that may possibly narrow this down.,,,,possibly. The machine runs fine for one or two days and the 3 times it has tripped the breaker I have reset and plugged machine back in and all is fine for another 2 or 3 days. Now of course if I run compressor and unplug during compressor running and plug back in to soon,,,you can hear the click when just plugged in but no compressor run,,,,only after unplugged for 15 or 20 minutes. Does this add anything to the issue ? Also,,,plug itself has never been hot or even warm during compressor run or any other time. Also have a 110v power strip connected at compressor for 110v 30" LED's and 12v convertor plugged in strip also for neon.The DERP has spoken,,,I'm done.lol
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 08:41:06 pm by Rebel » Logged
Creighton
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 11:02:36 pm »

Great post with ton's of info. Thanks all.

>>Also have a 110v power strip connected at compressor for 110v 30" LED's and 12v convertor plugged in strip also for neon.

Easier to sort out issues if you only work with direct power to suspect components one at a time.

Ask any and all questions.
Creighton
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stuntpilot
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 04:07:00 am »

You know JohnieG......let us start from the beginning. There is no plate with this machine. Secondly,,I had no idea what amp it should be so that leaves me with coming to what I thought was about the best forum around.
Now for your question. No, I am not trying to burn my house down and sorry but I have mentioned several times I am new to restoring of soda vending machines.
I appreciate your information on this subject and a few other questions I've asked since signing on. To put it gently as possible,,I have over 30 years in the 12 volt world of street rods and only hope you don't have any stupid questions about this subject down the road but I will try very hard to not insinuate that you're stupid.  

Rebel,
   I'm with JohnieG on this one, were not trying to be a$$-holes, as electricians we see this stuff everyday and know the danger of an overloaded circuit. I deal with burned down houses most every day and it's usually the same thing at every fire, space heaters, candles, power strips, DIY wiring, 90 percent of the time it's an overload. We really don't want you to burn your house down, were just getting your undivided attention.

I wish I could post pictures of the last fire I just finished but the 100 KB limit just doesn't let me show you anything. The lady kept resetting a tripped breaker due to running a space heater on a 15 amp circuit, when she woke up at 3 AM she could hear the crackling in the attic, she's lucky she got out alive. Breakers will only trip so many times, then all of a sudden they don't, then your wire becomes the last line of defense.

Interesting that you install low voltage stuff for street rods, I like dabbling in the LED stuff. Curious to see what the NEC does with low voltage requirements for the code, last I heard they were thinking about lowering the threshold to 10 volts, new code book comes out this month, you might need a license to install that stuff in the future  LOL!!

Trace out this circuit and get back to us and let us know everything that's on it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 04:52:07 am by stuntpilot » Logged
globalcompressors
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 09:00:52 am »

yeah, it's kinda' like that.
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Rebel
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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2013, 09:41:06 am »

yeah, it's kinda' like that.

LOL,,Not exactly but understand the point.

Oh,,,I understand the concern on everyone's part and I also have the same concerns and this is why I'm here. No argument at all just took me awhile to get through, what I call smoke and mirrors and wise cracks. Now JohnieG has gotten down to details in his last post so we're going to go from there and find out what be going on in my world.  I think it is a case of refrig. and machine being on same breaker and both kicking on about the same time but we'll find out what's on this line and run the tests mentioned.
Hey and guys I just needed info and appreciate it very much. Will get back with you after this weekend with an update.
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Creighton
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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 08:32:28 pm »

No worries Sir.
Will get your machine sorted.
Please understand there are a bunch of "fly By" one hit wonder posters on this board. And a bunch of lurkers that do not contribute.
All I can say to them is pony up. Suspect they may have valuable information.
One never Knows. Any questions you may have just ask!
Creighton
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Rebel
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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2013, 09:36:50 pm »

No worries Sir.
Will get your machine sorted.
Please understand there are a bunch of "fly By" one hit wonder posters on this board. And a bunch of lurkers that do not contribute.
All I can say to them is pony up. Suspect they may have valuable information.
One never Knows. Any questions you may have just ask!
Creighton


Greighton,,,,thanks,,appreciate it. I understand. On the street rod forums I was among a few who ventured out beyond the normal and also because of my age(old)lol,,,weren't many things anyone would nail me on but the few times that happened it was an electrical issue. Guess you guessed that.lol
There is one other thing I discovered today,,the light that plugs in behind coin drop area gave me a little shock when I was holding it and my hand touch the coin box and when I screwed a 110v LED in the socket, it was very very dim but all other lights are normal.
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stuntpilot
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« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 03:43:07 am »

Greighton,,,,thanks,,appreciate it. I understand. On the street rod forums I was among a few who ventured out beyond the normal and also because of my age(old)lol,,,weren't many things anyone would nail me on but the few times that happened it was an electrical issue. Guess you guessed that.lol
There is one other thing I discovered today,,the light that plugs in behind coin drop area gave me a little shock when I was holding it and my hand touch the coin box and when I screwed a 110v LED in the socket, it was very very dim but all other lights are normal.

The light bulb socket most likely has a loose wire, look at the rivets inside the socket where the wire connects. If they look burnt or corroded, replace it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 04:55:31 am by stuntpilot » Logged
Rebel
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« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 08:51:11 pm »

Didn't get a chance to do much today but did find I have GFI 20 amp breaker. Will get on the rest of this detective work tomorrow.
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