So, right now, what are our machines really worth???

[Vendo_110]

I have been watching the market for the last couple of years decline for our hobby.  I have been to auctions, estate sales,, bought from private owners etc. 

Now I have searched Fleabay for completed listings and there are virtually ZERO sales of any nice machines.  Most of the machines that sell are rough unrestored ones.  I see the same V81's and Cav 72's for sale at the same prices and they have not sold in, well, a long long time.  I know times are tough right now for alot of people and they are just not buying these luxury/hobby type items.

With that in mind, what are our machines really worth??  I know some will answer, "They are worth what someone will pay for them." but I am trying to figure out how much this hobby of ours has really suffered, value-wise.

I just see that no one is paying 5K for a restored V81, Cav 72 or a V44 and find it very difficult to gauge what these restored machines are really worth.

Maybe some of you veteran hobbyists can give their opinion as to where they see the market.  Is this the worst you have seen?  Has it been even worse before?  Do you see prices dropping even further?

I know its a bunch of questions, but I guess I am wanting to start a discussion on where this hobby stands and where it is going.

Oh, and I'm bored!! 

[collecture]

My thoughts are that, just like in most markets, there is a "Buyers Market" and a "Sellers Market" and we're in a "Buyers Market. I think quality (and/or rarity in some cases) plays a huge role in value retention. One of my father's antique friends once told me that, as far as collections go, it is better to have a few nice pieces than a lot of poor examples in one's collection. The reason is that they hold their value better through bad economic times. Collectors will find money (even in bad times) to add a nice piece and won't when it comes to a run of the mill piece.

[vintage-air]

Well, I'll chime in with my .02. I have been in the hobby only about 7 years and have seen machines all over the spectrum with price. Earlier this month, I saw some strong prices for all the brands of VMC 81's and most were top notch restored or nice original machines. The big seller was the RC 81 that went for $19K. I heard the original owner bought it back because it was so nice. I know I have bought coke 81-D's lately in the range of $300, $1200 and  $2200. I recently sold a nice original 81-D machine on E-bay for $3850. Bought a Jacobs 26 for $500 (needs restored) and 2 Vendo 44's for $2100 for the pair. (needing restored) I also attended the chicagoland show a few weeks ago and saw some good deals and some overpriced stuff too.

I usually try to get the best deal possible when purchasing a machine but I'm in this hobby for the love of it and not so much to make money. All the markets around the globe are soft right now. The collector car market has taken a hit but the blue chip cars will still bring the bidders and that adds to higher prices. SO, what is "worth you ask". Well, "worth" is a monetary value we put on things based on supply and demand. I think if we all can do our part and pass on our passion for this hobby, it will add demand which in turn will increase machine price. But on the other hand, keeping prices low will make it possible for the average collector or hobbyist to enjoy our passions. Once the economy recovers, i feel people will spend more on a very nice machine than they are willing to now. Keep the passion up and fuel our hobby and the rest will fall in place.

[RC kid]

I am not really an expert in the hobby. But I do know that I am able to buy machines now that I only dreamed about buying in the past. And to be honest, I kind of like it that way.

I bought a collection of signs from a well to do gentleman recently and I did fairly well. I went into his garage convinced that I was wasting my time and I left with a fairly large number of signs. He said he was done with the hobby and was down sizing into a retirement home and was unable to find buyers for his extremely nice collection of signs. At least there weren't any in our neighborhood at the time.

I am also finding people more reasonable with the machines they want to sell, and when they refuse to come down on the price the market just confirms my point by the fact that they still have their overpriced machines. I bought a super nice (an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10) Vendo 44 for $1500 in Louisville Ky when the seller was asking $3200 obo. He needed cash and didn't even know how to open the machine up for inspecting. I passed on two Vendo 44s for $3500 each and they both had older restorations, they are both still available today. I remember these machines costing much much more.


On the other hand the 81s still command a heavy price. But the 110s and 39s and 44s have come down drastically. This probably has to do with the fact that 81s are being picked up by the true connoisseurs while the regular guy along with the coke collectors are, or were, buying the other, less expensive machines. The 44s used to be the most desirable Soda Machine but today the 81 is the top dog.

I also don't see the same speculators as I saw in times past. You know, the guys who were buying up machines and sticking them into their barns as some form of a retirement fund. I guess they learned the hard way that rust never sleep, Mice love to chew on wires and if you don't use it you'll lose it.

Bottom line as far as pricing goes. It appears to me that I can buy a machine today for the same money these same machines were selling for in the early nineties. And at times I can get them for a little less. Exception being the 81s. But even those are more affordable then they were three or four years ago. There are still quite a few people who refuse to come to terms with the depressed market but the laws of supply and demand is teaching them.
Collecture is right about the fact that the truly rare and beautiful pieces will almost always old their value.

I think the prices will go up in the future, when and how quickly, I don't know. My brother's friends are asking about the machines I have stored at his house. One of them even stated he had $1500.00 to spend on a machine if we could find one for him. He was looking at my 44 and my brother's restored Pepsi VMC 33. He may not get one of these machines for fifteen hundred dollars but I am sure we can find him a super nice Vendo 39 or Cavalier c-51 for half that price. I know, because I already found a complete, presentable, and fully functional C-51 for $650 obo less then two hours away.


Well.. that's my input

[MoonDawg]

        I think restored machines are slow selling because people who paid top dollar are stuck on getting all of their money back. Unrestored machines are selling better because people think that a restoring a machine themselves will be easy after watching
Pawn stars ( which has definately brought me more calls for restoration services lately).

        E-bay sales for restored machines does not guage the true market. People wanting a restored machine are reluctant to send money through the mail for a machine they have only seen pictures of and must take the sellers word of how well it performs. They would rather see and operate it in person. My sales of round corner uprights have increased this year so I think the market is returning.

        While we are on the subject, (for our European members), I know of some machines and signs in Switzerland that the owners are desparate to sell. Two brothers exported them from here back in the 1980's but now they think their market has sacked. They sent me pictures today of a Vendo 44, 2 V-39's, Cavalier 27, 2 36" button signs and some other stuff...all excellent condition. P.M. me for their contact info.

         Yes, we are in a buyers market but history always repeats itself. We have had recessions before and we will come out of this one just like all the ones in the past.
This is a perfect time to think ahead.

[mznb1u]

I have only been at this for a few years but from what I have seen and learned, I would have to echo a lot of what has already been said.

From my perspective--I work in the title insurance business--the market for nice restored machines will recover when the economy and housing market recover.  Remember, a lot of the restored soda, candy, cigarette machines were purchased for home theaters and finished basement entertainment areas.  The mid to high mid sized housing (2500--5000 sq ft) took the biggest hit when the housing bubble burst and that is where a lot of those game rooms/home theaters were being installed.  Go on CL and search high-end appliances like Viking and Sub Zero and you will see appliances being sold out of these McMansions that are headed toward foreclosure.

In the meantime, I am watching for opportunities for the machines that I want to buy and keep.  I have made some good money on a few machines but that is not why I am in the hobby.

  Tim

[Vendo_110]

Very interesting opinions guys!

By reading these, it has occurred to me that the region where you live is also probably playing a big part on value/availability/pricing as well.  Here in the southwest availability is low, but people want high dollar for machines restored or not.

I agree with your opinions that now is the buyers market and that we should take advantage of this situation.  I came into the hobby when it was at a high level and just had not seen a decline yet. 

What do you think is the best indicator of values?  Auctions? Private sale?  I'm not in the hobby to make money, per se, but I do like to find that great deal on a machine that may help me fund more desireable machines I want to keep!  My wife has alot of influence in how much I can spend 

I hope there are many more machines inmy future.  I still need to find that V44 and V81 for a great price!

[SIGNGUY]

Alot of good points.. As far as to what to guage it on.. I say all of it, auctions, actual sales, shows (like chicago, hersey) stories from other collectors. ..
I agree with Glen, dont put much stock in Ebay for restored machines, I am still getting top dollar for a perfectly restored machine, and the restorations are still coming in for the high end rarer machines..
I was seeing good prices paid for 81's in Chicago.. I sold 5 of them for what I'd say was good money , but fair.