Restoration for dummies

OK folks, since ya'll know a whole lot more than I do about restorations please shed some light on the restoration process.  Call it dumbing down!!  Is there a particular order in which a person would do the actual restoration of a machine?  Is there a manual or self help books?  I am going to do my la Crosse first then do the Vendo and I am going to Big Spring, texas on April &th to buy 2 more machines ( one for my dad and one for my new store). any advice will be appreciated.  Pictures are posted int eh General section of this fine site.  Last question:  how will I know if I am an addict?
Justin

[sodaworks]

JustinBoots,
  Buying two more machines,Hmm... I would say your addicted. As far as restorations go, start by taking lots of pictures and notes. These will come in handy later. I always strip everything down completely. This includes removing the inner tub. You gotta get the old smelly insulation out. I personally media blast every piece whether it be in my bead blasting cabinet or sandblasting, (with the exception of the refrig. unit.) These are high pressured washed and scrubbed down with a s.o.s. pads. I also remove the bottom mounting plate and media blast prior to painting it.  I cut out any cancered metal and replace with new sheetmetal. I do all the body work and then shoot on a few coats of poly primer. Then guide coat followed by block sanding with 400 grit wet sand. Primer seal and finish coats follow. Cut and buff all paint. I always install new fan motors and wiring harness, rubber seals, decals,etc.  

What kind of insulation do you replace with and how many coats of paint?  Nice thing is i have access to a paint booth and experianced painters. Justin

Wish I did. '>
I am having to hire Maaco.

[loman4ec]

Kito,
You could also go to a local auto body shop and ask them about it. It will run slightly more but it might be worth it. That is how I found my painter in Florida. I put the machine in the back of my tuck and went searching. I knew I had found the right one when almost everyone that worked there was out at my truck looking at the machine in awe. They painted a few machines for me and then I hired their painter to do the work on the side. Just an idea. But I really think Maaco will do a good job for you. As long as the body work is done I'm sure it will be as good as any other paint job. Also make sure that they are using hardner in the paint as you might decide to buff it once it is done. Also you can buff out any imperfections or runs once it is done.

Thanks Josh.

[dr galaga]

Quote (loman4ec @ Mar. 23 2005,11:35)

You could also go to a local auto body shop and ask them about it. It will run slightly more but it might be worth it.

About how much does an "average" machine cost to paint at a body shop?



Okay, average of all of the machines that you have done.

[BryanH]

Justin - for the first restoration, I have to agree with Terry... take as many pictures as you can before you break each assembly down.  Digital camera's will be your best friend.  I also try to keep each set of assembly parts stored in separate bags or containers.

[loman4ec]

It depends on whether you are having the body work done or doing it yourself and I have found that if you bring more than one machine to be painted the same color it is cheeper. I would sa if you do the work between $175 and $225. If having them do the body work (but the machine is completely taken apart) between $350 and $500 depending on what needs done.

[Eric]

Man it was hard for me to take pictures and I'm sure I will pay for it!
I took zip lock bags and a marker and put every piece in a bag and wrote what it was from.
I took a few pictures so I can post it in the album here once I have it completed.
I sent several pieces off to be zinc plated and the tub. I have a few stubborn screws that
I'm having trouble getting out and all the screws around the main door. But after that
I'm going to have the etire door, coin door and cabinet media blasted.

My advise to you is if you're keeping it for yourself don't cut any corners... take your time and do it right the first time.... This site is wonderful... There are so many folks here that have the “know how” and “been there done that” and are glad to help!

Take your time, mark everything and if you get stumped ask for help here!
We're all here for you!

Eric

[BrianB]

When I take all of my machines apart, I just throw all of the parts into what I call the "#### Box". And then when It comes time for reassembly, I play this game called "Oops, wonder where that goes".

Seriously, my first step in taking apart a machine always starts with A LOT of pictures. I always start with baseline photos of what the machine looked like prior. I then try to photo document specific areas of damage or places that are of concern.

Go to Sam's Club/Wal Mart and buy a cubic butt ton (very scientific measurement of weight) of ziploc bags. During that same shopping trip you should also purchase a pack of Sharpie permanent markers. One other thing that I find helpful in I.D.ing parts is to use the small manila price tages that have the stringson them. I individually tag/bag all parts as I take them off.

The logical order that I have found to the complete disassembly goes something like this (for a basic square top)
#1 remove all bottle shelves
#2 remove drip tray, coin box, cap catcher and, coin mech
#3 disconnect vend switch / solenoid wires
#4 remove bottle rack
#5 remove refrigeration unit (evaporator/condensor as a functional group)
#6 Once wires from bottle stack are free and clear from main body, you are clear to remove the main door off of it's hinges
#7 Remove liner (condenstae tube comes with it)
#8 Don your coveralls (if you already haven't) safety glasses, gloves and dust mask capable of filtering out fiberglass. Remove all fiberglass insulation and place in trash bag and seal. There has been some debate and some conformation that this type of old insulation might have small amounts of asbestos in it and it definitely has formaldihyde.
#9 Inspect the interior of the main body for rust/corrosion
#10 take lots of pictures!!
#11 remove coin door from main door
#12 remove locking bar/lock from coin door
#13 remove wiring harness to include; jones plug, lighted sign switch, light ballasts, starter bases.
#14 remove lighted sign
#15 remove all main door trim and grill/decorative kick panel
#16 Take more pictures!!
#17 turn door upside down and remove door seal and door liner.
#18 put your safety gear back on and remove the fiberglass insulation from the main door.

That's a basic sequence that I use for taking a soda pop machine apart. It does however differ from model to model, even within the square top world that I'm relegated to! For me, if it looks like a screw, it gets removed and cataloged/photographed. And remember, this is the way I do it, not trying to say this is the best way.....Just my way! '>

[loman4ec]

I have also found that most screws out of these machines are nothing special and are rusty. Go to a hardware store and buy a big box of stainless #8 and #10 screws. It costs a little extra but it is well worth it and just think in 40 more years when someone goes to restore it again they will have no rusty screws and will be happy you invested the extra $20 in hardware.

[glassbottlesrule]

I second Josh on the screws.  Replace them all with stainless.I do not get into making my machine all pretty, I prefer them with the scars.  But whenever I get a new machine, I take it apart clean it real good and put back together using new screws.  I figure any old nasty screws are just going to make it rust that much faster.

[MoonDawg]

Most of our time and money goes into restoring the front door. I restore only the front door first.  Paint, chrome, glass, gaskets, handles, latches, lights, coin mech. decals .. and a lot of detail, goes into the main door.
      When completed, I can hang it on the machine and it looks nice and gives me incentive for the second phase.  Or if I found a better machine and want to quit, I can sell this machine easily (the buyer always has a friend who can paint the cabinet)
      I reccomend this to any first timer. Otherwise too much info, too much cost & too many parts to process, creates confusion, fear and then neglect.
      I've bought machines in pieces before because, quote "I took it all apart cause I was going to restore it, then ran out of time and money,"  Really, after draging his feet for 2 or 3 years he forgot how it came apart and got frustrated.  
      I say this is a learning process, "One thing at a time"

Great ideas guys, i own stock in baggies, we use them alot in the pharmacy. I used them whe i restore mt antique piano (that kicked my butt)  I think to start off with i am gonna order my hinges from funtronics tomorrow and along with the door Bob K gave me finish the log awaited assembly on the vendo.  On a plus side since our company has an account with Coca Cola, I will find out how much it will cost me to fill the Vendo.  I think a Bar-B-Q will be in order next week!  I will Post the mandatory pictures as i go along.  Feel free to offer opinions.  the only part i dread is the paint.  Justin

[sodaworks]

Justin,
 I am currently using the 3 1/2" rolled insulation. I know some restorers are using the board type but I prefer the roll. As far as paint, when I use a base coat-clear coat, I normally shoot on 4 coats of clear. Block sand with 1500 and cut and buff. I also found substituting 10-15% acetone for reducer makes the clear more glossy.

[Eric]

Wow...asbestos and formaldihyde....That doesn't sound good I just gutted my 81 this past Saturday!
I wore a cheap mask but no gloves and did it in my basement... So I'm sure I breathed a little
The insulation wasn't too messy and I already set it out and has been hauled off with the rest of the trash...
How bad was the stuff in the insulation... I don't want to freak but I have small kids but they aren't
allowed in the basement...

Eric

[sodaworks]

Eric,
 I just stripped down a early model 81 today.

[BryanH]

Quote (sodaworks @ Mar. 24 2005,8:45)

Justin,  I am currently using the 3 1/2" rolled insulation. I know some restorers are using the board type but I prefer the roll. As far as paint, when I use a base coat-clear coat, I normally shoot on 4 coats of clear. Block sand with 1500 and cut and buff. I also found substituting 10-15% acetone for reducer makes the clear more glossy.

I've been searching the forums for tips on refininshing the exterior. Terry (or anyone else) can you explain what you mean by 'cutting'?  Also is 'block sanding' just hand sanding with a block?  Would an orbital sander with the same grit paper be too harsh?  Is this better, worse or no different from wet sanding with the same grit paper?

Thanks in advance

[MoonDawg]

Its the process of smoothing out the finish. When paint first lands on the surface, it has a texture like an  "orange peel".   Wet sanding (cutting) then buffing, cuts down the high spots and gives the finished surface a better shine

[Creighton]

Hi Bryan,
I can help a little. Yes block sanding is just using fine grit sandpaper with a block or hard rubber holder to get all flat surfaces smooth and level as possible. The orbital will dig in and leave depressions. Best used to remove old paint around dents and such.

Glad you asked the "cutting" is a term I don't understand as well. Guessing buffing out stage but really have no idea.
Thanks!
Creighton

[Creighton]

Thanks for the info Glen!!
Creighton

[MoonDawg]

Its the process of smoothing out the finish. Paint or clearcoat first lands on the surface with a texture like an  "orange peel".   Wet sanding (cutting) cuts down the high spots (and also gives us a chance to sand down any dust specks or bugs that floated onto our work when it was wet). When sanded smooth with 600 to 1500 grit sandpaper, the high speed buffer will then polish the clearcoat to a level and mirror finish.
   (Repeat as necessary)

[Creighton]

Glen,
Think we were both typing at the same time :-) Thanks for the great info!!
Creighton

[BryanH]

First of all - thanks for all the info.  I'm getting closer to understanding what I need to do.

So Terry's method (as he posted it) is to block sand with 1500 grit  , then cut (wet-sand) and then buff.  

Is wet-sanding done by hand also?  and with the same grit paper as block sanding or should you move to a finer grit?

Also sounds like both block sanding and cutting should be done light pressure so as to only hit the high points.

Buffing is done with a tool (ie not by hand).  Do you use a rubbing compound or just a soft buffing head on the tool?

[Creighton]

Bryan,
The smart ones will correct but yes wet sanding is done by hand and use a very fine grit and lots of water. The pressure is a learned skill and if too much is applied it is back to the paint booth. All surfaces should be wet sanded before buffing (not just the high spots).

I'm not a fan of power buffers, prefer hand buffing going with the contours of the surface. Please note this sharing of questionable info is from the days of getting cars restored. Wiser souls will contribute.
Creighton

[sodaworks]

hartlenb,
  I cut (wet sand/block) with 1500 grit. I then use my variable speed hand held buffer/polisher to do the rest. I first use a sheepskin pad with a cutting compound (fast cut), then I use two different foam pads (different fineness) for polishing with a 3M polishing compound. Then I use a third foam pad with a 3M hand polishing glaze to bring the paint to a mirror finish. If you decide to use a hand held buffer/polisher be careful around edges/corners so that you catch an edge or burn through the paint. Let me know if you need more info. on the compounds,pads and buffer speeds. It sounds more complicated than it really is.

[BryanH]

As you can tell, I've never done this before.  I now understand the steps that need to be accomplished.  Now I'm looking for help on technique or methods behind the steps.  The simplest explanation for wetsanding that I found on the web came from http://www.type2.com/library/body/saprep.htm.   Would anyone add or change anything to this description (other than the reference to a car)?

Quote

Soak the paper in a bucket, then start sanding along contours in 1 direction only (unlike when blocking down filler with cross hatch). Do the entire car, then go to a finer 1000, then to 1500 grit. As you sand you frequently dunk your paper and block in water and use a sponge or a squirt bottle or a hose to keep rinsing off the fine sanding debris. Always keep the surface flooded and never let buildup gather on the paper (this is why you do it wet instead of dry, and you change paper frequently).

Does the process change if you use a single stage paint rather than basecoat / clearcoat applications?

Quote (sodaworks @ May 05 2005,6:17)

hartlenb, .... Let me know if you need more info. on the compounds,pads and buffer speeds. It sounds more complicated than it really is.

Terry I'll take whatever info / details you're willing to share.  I'm hoping to get out this weekend to buy tools, accessories and supplies.

[sodaworks]

Heya Bryan,
  Here's the info. on the buffing equipt. and supplies that I use. These really work well for me.
Buffer/polisher-
Hitachi model #SP18VA Variable speed control. Picked mine up at Home depot.
Pads-
Schlegel Buffs products.
1st.- 9" sheepskin, use on slow speed (2 on speed controller).
2nd.- 9" Green- cut/polish pad #2003 (3-4 on speed controller).
3rd.- 9" Blue- soft polish pad #2004 (5-6 on speed controller).
4th.- 9" White- finish pad #2005 (5-6 on speed controller).
I also have a set in 3" diameter for tight spots.
Compounds-
1st.- EZ1- Clean cut, use only on sheepskin pad.
2nd.- 3M- Foam polishing pad glaze #05995, use on green pad.
3rd.- 3M- Imperial hand glaze #05990, use on blue and the white pads. Note- This is a hand glaze but it works great on polishing pads. Let me know when your ready to polish and I'll give you a few pointers.

 '>

[sodaworks]

Pads and compounds will be avail. at your local automotive paint supply house.

[Jim]

Terry,

Have you ever used 3M Finessse (spelling?) as an intermedate polish...?
I've had good results with this product as well...

[sodaworks]

Hello Jim,
  I haven't tried that one yet. I will inquire about it on my next visit to the paint supply store. One of my friends manages a paint store and hooks me up on the latest and greatest stuff. Thanks for the tip. Terry '>

[BryanH]

Quote (sodaworks @ May 06 2005,9:07)

Let me know when your ready to polish and I'll give you a few pointers.

Hey Terry (and others).... I'm back.  I tried unsuccessfully to wait for the hot & humid weather to break before reassembling. So I'm looking for direction on how to get it ready for reassembly.

It's painted (a pretty good job), but I really don't know what I need to do next.  Do I need to polish the paint finish and then wax it for protection??  Generally, how much nicer will the finish look if I do all this compounding and polishing rather than just waxing it?

PS - is this kind of ebay polisher auction package a reasonable price

[sodaworks]

I always cut and polish prior to final assembly. The auction is what you need but you can buy it cheaper elsewhere. I bought my polisher from home depot and the pads I bought thru my automotive paint supplier. The polisher I use is a Hitachi and the pads I use are Schlagel. All my compounds are 3M. The auction has a buy it now of 215.00 which doesn't include compounds. You should be able to buy everything including compounds (3) for under 200.00 bucks. Be careful when polishing that you do not catch an edge.

[MoonDawg]

Y' know Bryan. If you got a good glossy paint job, with no dust or runs or orange peel....wax it and leave it alone.
        Cutting, buffing and polishing is a lot of work, and like Terry stated, a chance of burning through at the corners. Quit while you are ahead  '>

[BryanH]

Glen / Terry - thanks.  I think the paint job is pretty darn good.  Very glossy with minor orange peels... but I think the peels may be a product of my prep work.  I think I'll go with wax on this one and go the distance on my next one.... that way I don't need to wait any longer to put it back together.

One more question...  I have some water transfer decals that I want to apply.  Can I wax the paint job, then apply the decals, then wax again?  Or should the decals go directly on the paint?

[MoonDawg]

Good question. Water transfers work best on a flat finish.  If you apply them over an orange peel area you will trap air bubbles. Vinyl decals are sooooooo much better !!!!!
      Or you could cut and polish by hand only your decal area. and no, no, no wax between the decal and paint!

[sodaworks]

As Glen said vinyl cut decals are much nicer. I have found that when I use water transfer decal some knucklehead will scratch on them to see if it is a decal. Don't even ask me why?

[BryanH]

Yeah I've heard that vinyl's better but I haven't seen (or found) anyone with Pepsi decals. Only found the water transfer.

[sodaworks]

Bryan,
  I usually buy a set of the water transfer decals for a machine and then I have a dozen or so made in vinyl using the water transfer decal as a template for size, font and script. I keep the extra's for future machines.  '>

[BryanH]

Hey Terry - do you make them yourself (If I remember correctly your business is Soda-Signs.com) or go outside?  Do you have a ballpark price for something like the 8" bottle cap, the large double dot script and the smaller bottles?

[sodaworks]

Soda-signs.com is Eric. I just have a local shop duplicate the decals for me. Vintage vending used to carry the 8" bottle caps in vinyl. I bought several from them but I am currently out of stock on that one. Try BIT warehouse they bougtht out vintage vendings stock. I too would be interested in buying some more cap decals.