New to this, looking for thoughts on do it yourself vs buying already restored

[Bruce]

Hello all,

New poster here, noob to actually owning and/or restoring a vintage soda machine, and of course, I have questions and would appreciate any insights from you more seasoned collectors.

 Like possibly many of you, I have been sitting on an interest in acquiring an old machine for a number of years, and am now ready to act. I applied for posting privileges here late last week, and at the time had a line on a fairly local (2 hours drive away) Cavalier C-64, I believe it was. It was operational and was priced at $350.

Between my many questions to the seller, requests for more pictures, and the seller being out of town, it was sold before I could make a decision on whether it would be worth a 2 hour drive to look at it in person. Oh well. It wasn't my ideal machine, but the price was good.

 However I still want to join in here and educate myself so that I can figure out what I would really like, and also know what a good deal was, or probably more
importantly, what a bad deal was.

 My main question to begin with is what are your opinions on buying used and restoring yourself vs buying one that has already gone through a complete restoration. Using the Cavalier 64 I was looking at, I was looking at $350 for the initial purchase. I'm pretty decent with tools and am sure I could disassemble it completely, send the shell out for rust removal/bodywork/painting (at an auto painters?) clean up/detail the insides, have whatever pieces needed it taken off and sent out for chroming, repair/replace any wiring (I am a retired Air Force Electrician (24 years) by trade/helper outer on many other systems) that needed it, order decals, etc., and probably a few other details that a full restoration would entail that I am just unaware of.

 Now, the reason I was looking at possibly getting one already restored was because I came across this price info online while researching that C-64:

 http://gallery.antiquevending.com/cav64.html
 On there it says that that machine sells for $2995, and if you own one already it will be $2600 to restore it to that kind of condition.

 Now, that may be an old price, because elsewhere on the same vendors website I saw $3900 for it already restored and $2900 for the restoration alone, if you have the machine.

Here is the link quoting prices:

http://www.antiquevending.com/purchase-prices.html

So anyways, I wondered if between the painting and prep, chroming, any possible other mechanical/coin changer issues, all that might end up being close to the price (as I saw it, currency of quote unconfirmed) of a fully restored one.

 Or to put it simply, which is generally the cheaper way to go? Buying used and restoring yourself, or buying already restored? (Obviously my own skill/lack of in varied areas will impact this as well, of course) Well, let me assume it is cheaper to do it piecemeal yourself, then the bigger question is would it be *significantly* cheaper to do it myself, leaving the aspect of knowledge gained/satisfaction by doing it myself alone for now.

Looking forward to your thoughts and insights on this, and hoping to learn a lot as I go along!

Thank you

Bruce

[Creighton]

Bruce,
Welcome to the forum!!
The best advice I can offer is wait for the right machine to meet your skills. Decide what models you like and search for examples that do not need repainting but are advertised as not working or untested. The search involves checking garage sales, craigs list, eBay local pickup only anything that says "old soda machine". There are plenty of machines that the cabinet is in good shape and have all the parts that may only have a minor electrical issue. Go look at units that are close to you but not what you want. This will give you an idea of the various conditions machines end up as and knowledge of what to look for when you do find the model you want.

All of this will take time. While searching read old posts here to better understand what is required to bring a machine back to life. For your first machine I would suggest the ones that reproduction parts are available. Visit the vendors websites that are sponsors here. This will give you an idea of the costs involved. Looks like you already have done some of that.

Buy the most complete and original machine you can afford. Any questions just ask.
Thank you for your service to this great country.
With any luck others will post with their thoughts.
Creighton

[mznb1u]

Bruce,

Welcome to the forum.   I would echo what Creighton said.  Do a lot of looking and research before you pull the trigger on a machine and/or a restoration.  The other question that you have to answer for yourself is "Am I buying this machine to flip and make a few dollars or am I buying it to keep/use and not concerned about the future sales price?"  The Cav 64 is a great machine and very versatile for vending many different products--especially the USS-64 which can vend just about anything in plastic, glass or cans.  There are many versions of the 64 available as this machine had a long run and plenty of them are in good condition and working.  Some of the later models have the woodgrain contact paper on them which is not to everyone's liking.  That contact paper can be removed to reveal factory fresh paint!

I guess my advice is that if you are buying a machine for a user, especially a square top, I would caution against putting too much money into it because you will never get it back out.  Plus if you are using it, it is bound to get dinged up a bit so why not leave the existing character marks on the machine and just clean it up a bit.  There are threads on here that can give you tips on how to clean up the paint and bring the finish back up by using a little elbow grease and time.  You will want to make sure all of the mechanical and electrical is working so re-wiring the compressor, lights, ballasts and replacing the fans is always a good idea.  Some people will also use that time to remove the refrigeration system, rack and liner to replace the insulation, door gaskets etc.  Effectively an internal restoration so you know that your old machine is operating safely and efficiently.  These are all things you can do yourself by reviewing the threads on this site and asking questions when necessary.

Bottom line--whatever you decide, do the research before you buy the machine.  We have all learned the hard way that "rare" doesn't always translate into desirable or collectible. Rare can mean you will never be able to find the parts to complete the machine.  Unlike motorcycles and cars, in soda machines bigger (heavier) is not better because even a little Cav 64 tips the scales more than 300 pounds.  Spend some time looking through the archives here and you will get a good idea of what is out there, what market prices are and you can always ask questions.

If you decide to pay someone for a full-scale restoration, there are members on the site who do that type of work.  Some do just portions like refrigeration systems, while others do the entire process themselves while others do tear down and assembly but job out the refrigeration, paint and chroming.  Ask questions about how the restorer you choose will get the different items restored.  Ask for references.  Make sure you discuss the work to be done in detail and get specific pricing in writing with a specific delivery date.  Also discuss how unforeseen (hidden) problems in the machine will be handled if they are discovered.  It is no fun finding out that your machine will not be ready when you thought it would or, oh by the way, the price is $XXXX more than I quoted you because of X and Y and Z.  There should be no surprises, good communication through the process and a happy customer at the end!

Hope this helps!

  Tim

[MoonDawg]

http://gallery.antiquevending.com/cav64.html[/url]
 On there it says that that machine sells for $2995, and if you own one already it will be $2600 to restore it to that kind of condition.

       Welcome Bruce.
       Here is where you are getting confused. Of the hundreds of C-64's traded each year, only about 1% of them will ever reach half that $3k value quoted to you.
       So glad you checked in before buying. You are just like us, you don't want to buy someone else's restoration, you want to build a machine yourself.
       But restoring a square corner glass door machine vs. round corner multivend is like restoring a 56 Chevy vs. a 96 Chevy. Cost the same to build but value can't compare.
       Find a decent small sized Cavalier or Vendo to clean, re-wire and use for the summer. Then look for an ideal slider or Cavalier 72 to apply your skills into.
       By next summer you are going to really be having fun! 

       Oh..........there is one more word of caution, but I'll let the others else chime in.

[Bruce]

Thanks for all your thoughts so far, I really appreciate it.

A couple notes, as I wasn't very specific in my goals.

Yes, the first machine I gave serious thought to once I decided to hopefully go down this road was the C-64 I saw. But ultimately, I think I'd like a round top. Growing up in the 60's I do have a fondness for those, as they were what I saw (and used) a lot, although by then square tops were out there as well. Plus, they just look so, well, you know. That's why they are the most popular, no doubt

I would prefer one that had the door with a variety of selections to pull out vs one that only dispenses one type. Yup, hello Vendo 81 or one of its little siblings. White top.

But the wife was balking at the $350 for the used C-64. Yup, goodbye Vendo 81 or one of its little siblings..... 

But who knows, after all is said and done, I may end up with a square top, maybe even a C-64. But let's not limit the discussion to those.

Flip or keep? I would hope it's a keeper. But I guess now that I think about it I could see getting one, getting it going/looking better, and possibly selling it for a profit hoping to turn around and then re-invest and get one that is more to my liking, but that is not really my plan. But again, I could see that happening now that I think about it.

And Moondawg, if your last note was about some vendors with less then stellar reputations, (like the one I linked in my original post, twice) I already saw them mentioned in a different thread, and was also PM'd a heads up) I think that is what you were referencing, but I could be wrong.

One last thought, even though looking at some of the restoration pictures I've seen out there, where they look showroom fresh is really tempting, as a goal, like mznb1u mentioned, it will probably get dinged up some, so some "character marks" shouldn't be a show stopper. And considering I have 3 younguns under 7 years old in the house, the odds of the machine getting a few new marks is probably pretty high. And that would really get to me if it was a gorgeous, already restored, multi-thousand dollar machine.

Appreciating the feedback, I am already clarifying my goals some with your insights giving me food for thought.

[MoonDawg]

         No, you were wrong Bruce!
         My caution was that once you get your first machine..........others just keep following you home. 

[jholmgren]

Pretty much what I did with the 44 I just finished.  The insides are all cleaned up and painted, insulation and wiring replaced and rusty fasteners replaced with stainless... but the outside is pretty much 'as found'.  I just scrubbed it well with a brush, polished the paint and gave it a light coat of wax.  It's got plenty of scratches and dings but I know it is clean and safe and it looks like what it is... a 50+ year old appliance.   Everything I did to it is do-able by anyone with a basic set of hand tools, digital camera and a bit of patience.

Jim

[Sarman47]

Welcome Bruce

Ton of experience and knowledge on this site and a great group of people willing help.

Jeff

[Fire708]

My vote is to find a machine that's complete and not in too bad of shape. Take your time. The guys here helped me to no end. It's pretty cool to have friends over and show them the before pictures while they get a cold drink from your shiney soda machine.