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Author Topic: 20 amp or 30amp  (Read 35254 times)
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Jim
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 11:01:55 am »

This will require a little more investigative work to identify what other devices/appliances are also on the same circuit.  Wire size is directly related to its amperage capacity and therefore would not recommend increasing the amperage breaker size to a higher value. This is definitely the quickest way to start a fire!  Since the higher amperage breaker will not trip as easily, the wire will then heat up and fail eventually causing problems with afire being one of these issues...
Detective work is the best bet here as I stated; however, with that said and perhaps this circuit has been operating at its rated capacity for some time, the breaker could be showing signs of fatigue/failure. Most 20 single pole breakers are inexpensive and can be replaced for less than $5. Just be sure the actual wire connected to this 20 circuit is actually 12 gauge wire and 14 gauge! I do not know any details of the house construction or other modifications to the home through any renovations but some contractors have done less than standard work...  I would hate to see you replace the current breaker with the same amperage only to find the wire is not rated for this amperage!
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 11:15:25 am »

This will require a little more investigative work to identify what other devices/appliances are also on the same circuit.  Wire size is directly related to its amperage capacity and therefore would not recommend increasing the amperage breaker size to a higher value. This is definitely the quickest way to start a fire!  Since the higher amperage breaker will not trip as easily, the wire will then heat up and fail eventually causing problems with afire being one of these issues...
Detective work is the best bet here as I stated; however, with that said and perhaps this circuit has been operating at its rated capacity for some time, the breaker could be showing signs of fatigue/failure. Most 20 single pole breakers are inexpensive and can be replaced for less than $5. Just be sure the actual wire connected to this 20 circuit is actually 12 gauge wire and 14 gauge! I do not know any details of the house construction or other modifications to the home through any renovations but some contractors have done less than standard work...  I would hate to see you replace the current breaker with the same amperage only to find the wire is not rated for this amperage!

Very good and understand and appreciate the information and help. Will start the detective work and see what I discover. Sill a little confused on what size breaker it should be to begin with.
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globalcompressors
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 03:15:38 pm »

You know JohnieG......let us start from the beginning. There is no plate with this machine. Secondly,,I had no idea what amp it should be so that leaves me with coming to what I thought was about the best forum around.
Now for your question. No, I am not trying to burn my house down and sorry but I have mentioned several times I am new to restoring of soda vending machines.
I appreciate your information on this subject and a few other questions I've asked since signing on. To put it gently as possible,,I have over 30 years in the 12 volt world of street rods and only hope you don't have any stupid questions about this subject down the road but I will try very hard to not insinuate that you're stupid. 

well... at least it wasn't me this time   glare
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 03:41:47 pm »

       Ken, did you mean 20 to 30 total draw?  If not I'm confused too.

Your average 1/3 hp compressor will draw 29 amps on start up so what I was trying to say the total amp draw would be between 40 to 60 amps if two refrigerated units started at the same time. It is only for a second but it's more than enough to trip a breaker.

When I moved into my house right off the bat we had our microwave plugged in on the counter and the fridge was 10 feet away. the fridge started up when the microwave was on and popped the breaker. I had to run a new line for the fridge since it was on the same circuit as the whole kitchen.
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2013, 05:38:01 pm »

So...are you trying to burn down your house?, these machines were designed to be on a 15 amp circuit. don't be stupid. geez.    read your machines spec. plate...If it's tripping the breaker somethings really really wrong.  glare

My sentiments exactly! Since I'm a electrician and work mostly on fire restoration I'm intimate with these things.
Your 16 guage cord on the machine is probably only rated for 7 amps. If your tripping a 20 amp breaker you either have serious problems or a bad breaker.
Check draw with a clamp meter. you might as well just set the house on fire if you put in a 30 amp breaker and save yourself the trouble of the cord burning up. biggrin
Breaker size on any given circuit is determined by the wire size.
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Jim
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2013, 05:38:42 pm »

Sill a little confused on what size breaker it should be to begin with.
In the electric panel, you'll need to identify the wire size that feeds this circuit.
If it currently is on a 20 amp breaker, then I would hope the wire size is 12 gauge...
The wire size needs to be determined and then a breaker is matched to the wire size...
14 gauge wire = 15 amp breaker; 12 gauge wire = 20 amp; 10 gauge = 30 amp
Hope this clarifies a little better...
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 05:45:01 pm »

In the electric panel, you'll need to identify the wire size that feeds this circuit.
If it currently is on a 20 amp breaker, then I would hope the wire size is 12 gauge...
The wire size needs to be determined and then a breaker is matched to the wire size...
14 gauge wire = 15 amp breaker; 12 gauge wire = 20 amp; 10 gauge = 30 amp
Hope this clarifies a little better...


Correct!!
I have a feeling a new compressor is in your future.
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johnieG
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 06:15:11 pm »

Hey Derp (Derp=newbie in this case) 1st; I'm just warning you in a way that will get your attention, so I'm not going to sugar coat it...  blush two more pennies in the fuse box wont solve anything...so on we go.

2nd; you're not stupid at all, just not fully informed & looking for answers. PS I'm a Journeyman electrician, I work with 480/3 phase all day, so I don't F_around at all when it comes to electricity.  I want you to be safe.  You work with automotive systems, so you know most of the basics, this is good.

you need to know your machines amp draw. if you ID plate is missing, there is usually another plate on the Compressor deck itself, if that's gone or unreadable, then we're on our own.

So, anyway, if you have the machine on a 20 amp breaker & it's tripping, ( assuming it's not a GFI-breaker) then you will see a momentary surge of current upon startup maybe as much as 20+ amps & it should then drop down to about 4-8 amps typically within about 1-2 seconds MAX, depending on what size your compressor is. 

If it starts with a high Amp draw & stays there, then either it's mechanically seized up, ( called a locked rotor) the start/run relay is stuck/bad, or your run winding is open. But, if the breakers tripping before the compressors over current "clicks" off, then you have a hard short somewhere. unplug the machine.

I'd take the terminals off of the compressor & OHM check between each & the metal of the compressor housing to check for shorted windings, ( scratch through the paint to bare metal) anything other than infinity ( an open circuit, you know the drill)  it's a trashed compressor,

next measure between each of the terminals , you should be able to see both the start winding, run winding & common terminal respectively, you can see the pinout ID on the "pinned" topic at the top of the "refrigeration"  discussion area. if it checks out OK, proceed....

Go to home depot, go down the electrical aisle & get a handy dandy appliance "plug in line load" tester, it costs about $25.00  You plug it into the wall outlet & plug your machine into it with the thermostat in the off position, the display can be set for Amps or Watts, (you of course will be looking at the Amps draw) you should make sure the machine is about the only big appliance on that breakers line.

With the machine now plugged into the Load tester & the compressor OFF (via the thermostat) you will see the machines load on the line ( the evaporator fan, coinmech load, the lightup sign, etc.) make a note of it, It should read about maybe 2-amps....Now turn the thermostat ON & note the Amp draw, (hopefully before the breaker pops) a locked compressor will read high & stay there until the overload trips out ( sometimes it's also called the Clik-ette) or the houses circuit breaker trips. if so, it's going to have to be determined if the compressors really locked, of you have a bad start/run relay, an overcharged system. etc. See what you get & proceed from here.
 
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Remember, all it needs is a shot of Freon!
The Vendo V-83 is the '59 Edsel of the coke machine world. ;p
Spray painting does NOT restore a compressor
11 is louder than 10...
"Hope" is good, but it's not an action plan.
globalcompressors
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 06:50:01 pm »

what the hell's a "derp"??   Oo

oh... never mind.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 06:53:25 pm by globalcompressors » Logged

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johnieG
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2013, 07:29:42 pm »

a sampling of "DERP" faces....courtesy of my google images as pointed out by my teen son... tounge

Mega-man was the original once upon a time.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 08:08:37 pm by johnieG » Logged

Spoon-feeding Newbies since 2001...Wink
Yeah..220,221 whatever it takes.
Remember, all it needs is a shot of Freon!
The Vendo V-83 is the '59 Edsel of the coke machine world. ;p
Spray painting does NOT restore a compressor
11 is louder than 10...
"Hope" is good, but it's not an action plan.
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