SMC Discussion Areas

Hello,

I have a Seeburg 100 A jukebox and it works fine.  I recently bought a 3w1 wall box and I was able to figure that and the selection receiver out.  They both work fine now.  The one thing I can not figure out is how to add remote speakers to the jukebox.  I have the manual and I see the remote speaker wiring diagram.  I understand the diagram and that I need to have all the speakers phased the same, I understand the speakers are a constant voltage speaker, I understand that the amplifier load is between 6 and 25watts, and I understand that I have to balance the load between the speakers and the amplifier.

What I don't understand is the amplifier (MRAI-L6) has a warning "8 ohm speakers should never be connected directly to the terminal board of the amplifier."  I have bought a teardrop remote speaker (RS-8), which is 8 ohms.  I also have three high fidelity speakers (HFCV1-12), which are also 8 ohms.  I was assuming that the speakers I bought were the wrong types.  They are all constant voltage (70v) Seeburg speakers at 8 ohms a piece.  I was o.k. with that but then I saw someone on Youtube playing the HFCV1-12 speakers using a Seeburg 100 A.  I am confused on why he could do that.  He did have a Seeburg Speaker control (HF25LT-2) in the circuit between the amplifier and the speakers.  My guess is if you have the dial turned all the way one way, there would be zero resistance so wouldn't that be the same as wiring an 8 ohm speaker directly to the amplifier?  I'm having a hard time understanding this.  Any help would be appreciated.

I do have one of the recommended listed speakers for the jukebox, from the manual, it is a CVS3-8.  I know I can use that speaker.  I would like to use the teardrop speaker too.  On the back of the teardrop speaker you have two connections 500 ohm and 8 ohm.



OK now a similar question for a different Seeburg jukebox or console stereo.



I have a Seeburg 200c-1 console style phonograph.  I can use 8 ohm or 16 ohm speakers.  The amp setting when using the select o matic speaker is set to 16 watts.  When you add speakers you have to dial the amp accordingly to the wattage of your remote speakers.  I am going to use the three HF25LT-2 speakers for the 200c.  You're allowed 20 watts for all the speakers, including the Select O matic speaker.  If I put a volume control (HF25LT-2) going out to the three speakers, and I turn the three speakers all the way down, or off, would that mess up the main speaker or the amp?  The reason I am thinking that is because instead of having the amplifier set to 16 watts, I would have the amp set to 4 watts and the other three speakers wired to 4 watts each for a total of 16 watts. Once the three speakers (12 watts) are turned down, or off, would that mean my main speaker will be receiving only four watts?  Would that damage the speakers or amplifier?  The total speaker load should not be less than 5 watts and more than 20 watts.  Just curious if I lower the volume, the resistance would change, the wattage would change, and my amp or speakers would be damaged. I'm having difficulty understanding if the volume control changes the wattage.

Also with both the Seeburg A and the Seeburg 200 C-1, could I use regular copper speaker wire or does the wires have to be shielded?  I'll be using 14 awg copper speaker wires.



Thanks,

Larry

Hello Larry,

I do not have access to my manuals, especially the auxiliary equipment manuals but thought using the 70v Constant Voltage connection on the amp did not really have issues with 8 ohm speakers. With that said, I am assuming each of the external speakers have a CV transformer connected in the speaker housing...  I cannot remember how or why the HF25LT-2 works in some setups... Ironically, I have one of them in my hand as I looked at it to see if there was any wiring diagram on the bottom...  I guess I don't have much to offer for a solution!  Can you confirm the actual speakers in the enclosures have been replaced and if so, is the replacement have the same specs...?

Hi Jim,

The speakers are cv 70 volt speakers.  The HF is for high fidelity.  My 200c-1 is high fidelity and can handle the 8 or 16 ohm speakers.  

The A specifically states not to hook up 8 ohm speakers directly to the output.  Indirectly?  I don't know enough about audio to have an answer.  I was surprised too when I saw that in the A's manual.  I bought these speakers and volume controls for the A originally.  

I have no problem using them on the 200C.  I'm just wondering if I use the Seeburg volume control, would that affect the main speaker because if I decide to turn the volume down, would that affect the amp or speaker?  I wouldn't thinks so. but I don't know enough to make that call.  If I turn the auxillary volume control down, would the amp now, because its set to 4 watts instead of the normal 16 watts, be putting to much out to the speaker or will the speaker being lower than the minimum of 5 watts be damaging the amp?  I haven't got a clue.  I just thought it would be more like a plug and play system.  They are all 70 v cv speakers.  I would hate to make a newbie mistake and destroy either of them.  I can just hook up the speakers and blow off the external volume control.

Hey Larry,

Unsure where you are getting the "7v Constant Voltage" as I have never heard of this configuration. The most prevalent CV system, still in use today, is the 70v System.
Each speaker has a "step down" transformer that have a wattage selections depending on the needs of the individual speaker based on location, ambient noise, etc, etc... I am uncertain what the resistance (ohms) of the actual speaker is in these systems... I would guess 8 ohms, but that is only a guess since the "step down" transformer becomes the actual load on the amplifier. With that said, you will need to pay attention to the wattage settings so the cumulative wattage of all speakers in the system does not exceed the amplifier's max output.

Hopefully helpful...

Typos  :darn:.  All 70.7 V speakers.

All the speakers have a choice of different wattage which gives you different volumes (I believe that's how that works).  You adjust according to how loud or soft you want the speakers to be.  The 200C-1 has a range from 5 to 20 watts on the amplifier.  The original speaker, by itself, is set currently at 16 watts.  This setting is on the amplifier.  This is the correct setting for the speaker.  If I want to add other speakers, I will have to dial down the main speaker at the amplifier.  So if I decided to put in three of the ceiling speakers and have them at their loudest of four watts, those three speakers will equal 12 watts leaving me with 8 watts to stay within my 5 - 20 watt range on the amplifier.  You really do not want to be at 20 watts, so I would go to four watts.  Now my amplifier is set for 4 watts (main speaker only) and the three remote ceiling speakers would add up to 12 watts.  So my total is now 16 watts.  Everything is good.

The big question is if I use a Seeburg volume control for my three remote ceiling speakers, and decide one day that I just don't want the speakers on and dial them down to zero, will dialing them down effect my total wattage?  Would the 12 watts, from the three ceiling speakers, be canceled out?  If so, then my main speaker, (which if it is hooked up by itself needs 16 watts) will only be drawing 4 watts, which is below the minimum of 5 - 20 watts for the system.  I would imagine that since it is a Seeburg remote volume control for remote speakers, it should be fine, but I do not understand audio equipment.  I grew up with a clock radio.  I never even had a stereo.  Actually my first stereo was a Wurlitzer One More Time jukebox which I won of a radio station back in 1988.  So it is true, I have zero audio background.

Here's some info on the 200c

Seeburg A info.  I'm trying to see if I can hook up an 8 ohm speaker to the Seeburg A.  I saw it done on Youtube and of course Youtube now wont allow you to contact the poster. 

.More A stuff.  Here's the speaker.  It is 8 ohms.  I get the balancing part, I'm just worried  about the do not use an 8 ohm speaker part.  Any suggestions?  Am I missing something, beside audio skills. lol. 

The other ceiling speakers are just to show that they made other ones besides the HF ones.  I have one of the small 8" speakers. 

Larry,

I believe the output taps/speaker connections are CV only for your Seeburg A, so without a "Step down" transformer connected to the 8 ohm speaker, I am uncertain what the results may be...
I would utilize the wiring configuration in image "seeburg 100A speakers.jpg" and place wires on terminal 1 & 2 which appears to be labeled 500ohm...
Did you open the case on your RS1-8 speaker to verify the transformer is present and wired...?

No I ohmed out the ceiling speakers but I never looked at the teardrop.  I assumed that both the A and the C-1 are putting out 70 V.  I did not check with a meter yet.  I will investigate further this weekend.  I have to move stuff around.  I did a quick ohms law on the speakers and 70.7 V/500 ohms = .14 amps.  70.7 V/8 ohms = 8.83 amps.  8 amps is a lot but is .14 enough, just right, etc.?  The easiest way would be to hook it up and see if it smokes,lol.

Sorry guys I’m NO !! Help  :Oo: I usely use the phone a friend !  Larry  :tounge:

Picture of the output panel?
Creighton.

Larry,

Did you have success with the auxiliary speakers...?

Hi Jim,
Thanks for asking.  I haven't tried anything.  I got caught up with a lot of work issues and family stuff.  I still have to pull a lot of stuff out of the way to get to it.  I did post on the Antique Radio web site and I was very excited that the one guy who had the same exact set up as me on Youtube happened to be on that web site and commented on my post.  I tried to PM him and he just blows me off, my excitement dwindled to depression.

It sounded like he used the 500 ohm setting for the teardrop.  I ohmed out my teardrop speaker and nothing on that speaker showed 500 ohms.  So I was wondering if the speaker was any good?  I only have the one teardrop speaker so I can't make a logical decision on if I should try it.  I don't know enough audio to understand if the values are off would that damage the amp, speaker, or just work fine.  I know I can use the 8" CV speaker because it is in the book.