Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: davethebirdman on January 14, 2007, 03:25:16 pm
Okay chaps
please someone help me out. I just can't work out what's going wrong.
I'll start at the beginning. The re-fridgeration unit from my V-56 was not working properly. It didn't cool. It would cycle as it should do. In that thecompressor and bottom fan would come on with the evap fan. They would run until the overload kicked in and the compressor would turn off as would the bottom fan.
Not a problem - I understand that (I think). I sohuld add that I did install a 3in1.
So, I sent the unti away to an Air Con guy who thought he could re-charge it. He tells me this is what he did and I have no reason to doubt him. He had also re-wired it. Using a make shift wiring harness. I get it back and trest it for a short while outside the machine and yes the pipe got frosty.
I placed it in the machine plugged it in and everything fired up and started running. I could feel the cold air coming off the upper fan unit and I could see the pipes start to frost up.
I let it run. Well it ran and it ran and the follwoing happened.
1. The temp started to warm up.
2. The bottom compressor fan just kept on running. I could here clicks that indicated that the compressor had come on and gone off but the fan just kept on going.
So, I think to myself that he must have wired it wrong. I used a funtronics harness and wired the thing completely myself. As Ii have done for a few other machines. I'm happy I wired it correctly. I then changed the T-Stat just in case the original one had worn out and plugged it all in again.
The same thing happened again. Cold initally then the temp rose and it appears not to work and a continuous fan below. I have played around with it and have noticed that when I turn the T-Stat off and then back on again it beginings to get cold. Even if the on-off is only momentarily. But this won't last and still the bottom fan continues.
The two other machines I had the bottom fankicked in and out. I am right in saying that is the way with all units??? Or were some designed to work with the bottom fan running constantly.
Any idea why the unit should cool straight away and the within a couple of minutes warm up again.
I have left the unit running for two hours. I think this is long enough for it to cool down. Although it does have new gas in it.
Help, please help....
Dave
please someone help me out. I just can't work out what's going wrong.
I'll start at the beginning. The re-fridgeration unit from my V-56 was not working properly. It didn't cool. It would cycle as it should do. In that thecompressor and bottom fan would come on with the evap fan. They would run until the overload kicked in and the compressor would turn off as would the bottom fan.
Not a problem - I understand that (I think). I sohuld add that I did install a 3in1.
So, I sent the unti away to an Air Con guy who thought he could re-charge it. He tells me this is what he did and I have no reason to doubt him. He had also re-wired it. Using a make shift wiring harness. I get it back and trest it for a short while outside the machine and yes the pipe got frosty.
I placed it in the machine plugged it in and everything fired up and started running. I could feel the cold air coming off the upper fan unit and I could see the pipes start to frost up.
I let it run. Well it ran and it ran and the follwoing happened.
1. The temp started to warm up.
2. The bottom compressor fan just kept on running. I could here clicks that indicated that the compressor had come on and gone off but the fan just kept on going.
So, I think to myself that he must have wired it wrong. I used a funtronics harness and wired the thing completely myself. As Ii have done for a few other machines. I'm happy I wired it correctly. I then changed the T-Stat just in case the original one had worn out and plugged it all in again.
The same thing happened again. Cold initally then the temp rose and it appears not to work and a continuous fan below. I have played around with it and have noticed that when I turn the T-Stat off and then back on again it beginings to get cold. Even if the on-off is only momentarily. But this won't last and still the bottom fan continues.
The two other machines I had the bottom fankicked in and out. I am right in saying that is the way with all units??? Or were some designed to work with the bottom fan running constantly.
Any idea why the unit should cool straight away and the within a couple of minutes warm up again.
I have left the unit running for two hours. I think this is long enough for it to cool down. Although it does have new gas in it.
Help, please help....
Dave
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: 90grad on January 14, 2007, 04:36:25 pm
Dave,
The bottom (condensor) fan will run when the compressor does. When the compressor shuts off, the bottom fan shuts off. The job of this fan is to pull air through the condensor coils to cool down the hot coolant coming back from the evaporator.
The top (evaporator) fan runs constantly. It's job is to pull air through the cool evaporator coils, thereby cooling the air down and then circulating the cold air around the soda bottles. When the stat detects the air being blown around is too warm, it tells the compressor (and condensor fan) to kick on.
Question: You stated you heard a click when the compressor kicked on and off. Are you able to put your hand on the compressor and verify it is indeed off? You may want to use a glove, as it can get hot.
Your condensor (bottom) fan wires should be hooked to the common and run plugs of the compressor. You said you are using a 3-in-1. I think the red wire is the "run" wire. I can't remember if the black is the "common" wire or if it's the white one. Regardless, you have to "join" (splice) the wires from the condensor (bottom) fan to the red (run) and the common wires from the 3-in-1 and then plug into the compressor. It looks like you have two "y"s when you are done (two wires joined to make one).
The evap fan wires hook directly into the Funtronics harness.
If you've done all this, some one with more smart than I will have to chime in.
The bottom (condensor) fan will run when the compressor does. When the compressor shuts off, the bottom fan shuts off. The job of this fan is to pull air through the condensor coils to cool down the hot coolant coming back from the evaporator.
The top (evaporator) fan runs constantly. It's job is to pull air through the cool evaporator coils, thereby cooling the air down and then circulating the cold air around the soda bottles. When the stat detects the air being blown around is too warm, it tells the compressor (and condensor fan) to kick on.
Question: You stated you heard a click when the compressor kicked on and off. Are you able to put your hand on the compressor and verify it is indeed off? You may want to use a glove, as it can get hot.
Your condensor (bottom) fan wires should be hooked to the common and run plugs of the compressor. You said you are using a 3-in-1. I think the red wire is the "run" wire. I can't remember if the black is the "common" wire or if it's the white one. Regardless, you have to "join" (splice) the wires from the condensor (bottom) fan to the red (run) and the common wires from the 3-in-1 and then plug into the compressor. It looks like you have two "y"s when you are done (two wires joined to make one).
The evap fan wires hook directly into the Funtronics harness.
If you've done all this, some one with more smart than I will have to chime in.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: davethebirdman on January 14, 2007, 05:04:09 pm
Hi Wayne
followed your instructions to the letter. Still have the pictures you provided so I know I wired ti correctly.
The only thing I didn't double check was that the plugs on the compressor were correct. The
engineer has boxed them in.
They were correct when I first wired it all up. If he has changed them around would this affect the fan snd the instant cool then warm up??
The machine is currently being stored at my brothers (I have run out of space and good faith with the wife)
Dave
followed your instructions to the letter. Still have the pictures you provided so I know I wired ti correctly.
The only thing I didn't double check was that the plugs on the compressor were correct. The
engineer has boxed them in.
They were correct when I first wired it all up. If he has changed them around would this affect the fan snd the instant cool then warm up??
The machine is currently being stored at my brothers (I have run out of space and good faith with the wife)
Dave
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: 90grad on January 14, 2007, 06:08:32 pm
Dave,
Changing around the connections to those pins would definitely affect the way it runs. If I remember correctly, your compressor had a traingular arrangement of the pins (1 on the top row and 2 underneath). If that's the case, the pins are:
Common
Start Run
If you can get to that, I would check it, since it seems like the AC guy was messing with wires.
Changing around the connections to those pins would definitely affect the way it runs. If I remember correctly, your compressor had a traingular arrangement of the pins (1 on the top row and 2 underneath). If that's the case, the pins are:
Common
Start Run
If you can get to that, I would check it, since it seems like the AC guy was messing with wires.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: davethebirdman on January 15, 2007, 09:41:04 am
Okay. I have checked the connectors and they are correct.
I spoke with the man that did it on the telephone.
He thinks the unit is shot. He told me that the reason the fan is constantly running
is because as far as it is concerned it has not reached it optimum leave.
The compressor is switching off because of the cut off. Im a little confused.
When I had similar problems with my vendos as soon as the cut out operated the fan turned off.
If this was what was hapening now I would have a better understanding of the machine.
Instead the compressor is kicking on and off. (Its getting warm but not hot) and as it does it
begins to cool the compartment down but the fan is just running constantly.
Wayne, Anyone,Plse .... Put me out of my misery.
Thanks
Dave
I spoke with the man that did it on the telephone.
He thinks the unit is shot. He told me that the reason the fan is constantly running
is because as far as it is concerned it has not reached it optimum leave.
The compressor is switching off because of the cut off. Im a little confused.
When I had similar problems with my vendos as soon as the cut out operated the fan turned off.
If this was what was hapening now I would have a better understanding of the machine.
Instead the compressor is kicking on and off. (Its getting warm but not hot) and as it does it
begins to cool the compartment down but the fan is just running constantly.
Wayne, Anyone,Plse .... Put me out of my misery.
Thanks
Dave
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: 90grad on January 15, 2007, 09:53:28 am
Dave,
Unfortunately, this is now above my level of smart. However, any 56 (roundtop or squaretop) has a cooling system that fits yours. Maybe a member here would have a squaretop parts machine you could buy the system from. This way, you wouldn't have to pay double shipping (over to Eric and back). Or, just contact Eric at Global Compressors and he will definitely square you away.
Not trying to take your business away, Eric (you are THE best), but Dave being "across the pond" complicates things a little.
Does anyone have a spare cooling system for Dave?
Unfortunately, this is now above my level of smart. However, any 56 (roundtop or squaretop) has a cooling system that fits yours. Maybe a member here would have a squaretop parts machine you could buy the system from. This way, you wouldn't have to pay double shipping (over to Eric and back). Or, just contact Eric at Global Compressors and he will definitely square you away.
Not trying to take your business away, Eric (you are THE best), but Dave being "across the pond" complicates things a little.
Does anyone have a spare cooling system for Dave?
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: MoonDawg on January 15, 2007, 12:26:09 pm
Dave, I have had several compressors die on me also lately.
I think I can answer your question about the lower fan motor.
When the unit shuts off compressor and fan have no power and are off, although centrifical force is still spinning the fan. When power returns it looks like the fan never quit.
Wayne is right. Your compressor assembly is easy to find from a squaretop 56 or Vendo 90, but shipping may be prohibitive.
Your refrigeration guy should be able to install a brand new compressor into your system for less than freight cost
I think I can answer your question about the lower fan motor.
When the unit shuts off compressor and fan have no power and are off, although centrifical force is still spinning the fan. When power returns it looks like the fan never quit.
Wayne is right. Your compressor assembly is easy to find from a squaretop 56 or Vendo 90, but shipping may be prohibitive.
Your refrigeration guy should be able to install a brand new compressor into your system for less than freight cost
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: davethebirdman on January 15, 2007, 01:22:41 pm
Hi Glen
Thanks for your words of wisdom. I think you are right about buying a compressor unit this end of the world. I can actually get it all hooked up to our power too doing away with the transformer.
With regard to the fan. I looked long and hard at it. I can hear the compressor kick off (or what sounds like a kick off) but the fan still continues to roll, just as strong as it did when the compressor was running. This is really baffling me. Its wired up corectly cos I did it myself. I've checked the 3 in 1 Plugs and they are on the right terminals. If I turn the T- Stat off it shuts everything down.
Could the 3 in 1 be faulty.
Thanks for your words of wisdom. I think you are right about buying a compressor unit this end of the world. I can actually get it all hooked up to our power too doing away with the transformer.
With regard to the fan. I looked long and hard at it. I can hear the compressor kick off (or what sounds like a kick off) but the fan still continues to roll, just as strong as it did when the compressor was running. This is really baffling me. Its wired up corectly cos I did it myself. I've checked the 3 in 1 Plugs and they are on the right terminals. If I turn the T- Stat off it shuts everything down.
Could the 3 in 1 be faulty.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: Yarochrehc on January 15, 2007, 05:24:44 pm
Dave,
The compressor and condenser fan motor in some ways run together and separately. When the coolers thermostat calls for cooling both the compressor and fan both run at the same time, but if the overload ( the clicking sound ) kicks off the compressor the condenser fan usually keeps on running to try and cool down the compressor until it turns back on.
If you can unhook the condenser fan temporarily and plug in the cooler can you hear the compressor run, if so for how long. If it is more than a minute, unplug the unit, if not then you yave a compressor problem.
The best way to check the compressor is to either have a compressor test kit, or to hot wire it.
The compressor and condenser fan motor in some ways run together and separately. When the coolers thermostat calls for cooling both the compressor and fan both run at the same time, but if the overload ( the clicking sound ) kicks off the compressor the condenser fan usually keeps on running to try and cool down the compressor until it turns back on.
If you can unhook the condenser fan temporarily and plug in the cooler can you hear the compressor run, if so for how long. If it is more than a minute, unplug the unit, if not then you yave a compressor problem.
The best way to check the compressor is to either have a compressor test kit, or to hot wire it.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: cvb141 on January 16, 2007, 08:36:43 pm
I worked on a compressor today that was overheating and going off on overload, which leaves the condenser fan motor running. The start components had been replaced with a 3-n-1 like yours, but the compressor was wore out and would run a while till it got hot. It would cool down later and come back on for a little while and do it again. Is your compressor really hot to the touch. It maybe time for a new one.
Jerry
Jerry
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: davethebirdman on January 17, 2007, 01:59:14 am
Jerry & Bob thanks for your comments.
Jerry - No the compressor doesn't get hot to touch. Just warm.
Bob - will try your suggestion. "Hot Wire" I can hot wire acar but not sure how you hot wire a compressor. Could you plse enlighten me.
Thanks
Dave
Jerry - No the compressor doesn't get hot to touch. Just warm.
Bob - will try your suggestion. "Hot Wire" I can hot wire acar but not sure how you hot wire a compressor. Could you plse enlighten me.
Thanks
Dave
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: Yarochrehc on January 17, 2007, 06:59:56 pm
Dave,
First unplug the machine from the power, then when you hot wire a compressor you take all the wires off the terminals on the compressor, then you take a power cord with some wire clips on the ends and put one clip on the "C" or common side terminal, put the second one on the "R" terminal of the compressor, then take a jumper wire and put it on the "S" terminal.
Now when you plug the machine back in, you momentarly take the other end of the jumper wire from the "S" terminal and touch it to the "R" terminal then take the jumper wire back off the "R" terminal. In reality you are doing the same thing that the start relay is doing.
You can do this one or two times as long as you unplug the machine after each time. Remember if the compressor does not start after a couple of seconds unplug the machine or you could melt the wires and you could get hurt, but if the compressor does start and runs you now know that the compressor is ok and you have to look elsewarefor the problem.
This process take all the guess work out the of the picture. (such as the overload, start relay, thermostat, bad wire connections).
If the compressor doesn't start it is probably bad.
Also this procedure is not as bad to do as it might sound, and with a little caution this is a sure fire way to test a compressor.
Hope this helps a little.
First unplug the machine from the power, then when you hot wire a compressor you take all the wires off the terminals on the compressor, then you take a power cord with some wire clips on the ends and put one clip on the "C" or common side terminal, put the second one on the "R" terminal of the compressor, then take a jumper wire and put it on the "S" terminal.
Now when you plug the machine back in, you momentarly take the other end of the jumper wire from the "S" terminal and touch it to the "R" terminal then take the jumper wire back off the "R" terminal. In reality you are doing the same thing that the start relay is doing.
You can do this one or two times as long as you unplug the machine after each time. Remember if the compressor does not start after a couple of seconds unplug the machine or you could melt the wires and you could get hurt, but if the compressor does start and runs you now know that the compressor is ok and you have to look elsewarefor the problem.
This process take all the guess work out the of the picture. (such as the overload, start relay, thermostat, bad wire connections).
If the compressor doesn't start it is probably bad.
Also this procedure is not as bad to do as it might sound, and with a little caution this is a sure fire way to test a compressor.
Hope this helps a little.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: cvb141 on January 20, 2007, 11:50:53 am
I have seen terminals blow-out of compressors before. So be careful and keep your face out from in front of the terminals. Extending your jumper wires around to the side of the compressor would be good, so if anything bad was to happen. Good luck.
Jerry
Jerry
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: sodaworks on January 20, 2007, 11:58:49 am
(cvb141 @ Jan. 20 2007,8:50)
QUOTE
I have seen terminals blow-out of compressors before.
Title: Problems with the V-56
Post by: cvb141 on January 20, 2007, 12:12:42 pm
Am I alone on this one?
Jerry
Jerry