Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on September 15, 2006, 07:18:35 pm
Hi guys,
I tried wiring up my time delay relay for my pepsi vendor as per the attached diagram and it doesn't work.
Terminal A is AC hot, and terminal 3 is AC Neutral, and I get 110V between them. Between terminals A and 6 I get 55V, and between A and B I get nothing at all (which is why the relay isn't energising).
It looks like I connected something wrong, but I'm not sure where.. any help would be much appreciated..
Chris
I tried wiring up my time delay relay for my pepsi vendor as per the attached diagram and it doesn't work.
Terminal A is AC hot, and terminal 3 is AC Neutral, and I get 110V between them. Between terminals A and 6 I get 55V, and between A and B I get nothing at all (which is why the relay isn't energising).
It looks like I connected something wrong, but I'm not sure where.. any help would be much appreciated..
Chris
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on October 08, 2006, 08:01:06 pm
Well it turns out all I had to do was bypass the resistor.. replaced it with a small length of wire and it now works a charm..
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: bubba on October 09, 2006, 05:54:12 am
Hmmmm...you may want to find out just why that resistor is there... Now also, looking at that drawing, that item with the black arrow and line on it above the resistor is a diode. Diodes are like an electrical check valve and if installed backwards, will not work.
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on October 09, 2006, 03:19:53 pm
(bubba @ Oct. 09 2006,6:54)
QUOTE
Hmmmm...you may want to find out just why that resistor is there... Now also, looking at that drawing, that item with the black arrow and line on it above the resistor is a diode. Diodes are like an electrical check valve and if installed backwards, will not work.
My guess is that the resistor is there to drain the cap or something.. all I know is that all the components were fried when I got it, and the resistor measured at 565 ohms.. it could've gone up or down in value or anything though and it was burnt so I couldn't read the stripes..
I am familliar with what a diode is (I drew that diagram myself), and it's oriented correctly.. it's there to feed DC to the capacitor (which is polarised)..
The original schematic for the machine doesn't have any of the components on it.. just a box with "time delay relay"..
I might add that when I tested the original time delay relay it didn't work with the resistor either, but worked ok with a wire in its place..
I am thinking somebody added the resistor later for some reason.. the main thing is that it works correctly now.. the solenoid stays down for about 1 second to allow the can to pass.. (instead of springing right back up immediately)
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: bubba on October 09, 2006, 03:32:33 pm
Nice job on the drawing
What program did you draw it in? I've been looking for something to do basic electrical in... Right now I'm using Visio, which I like, but a bit overkill for what I normally need.Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on October 09, 2006, 05:49:50 pm
Actually with this diagram I just added the time delay components.. the relay diagram itself was taken from the data sheet..
I use visio for all my drawings.. I redrew the entire schematic for my machine using it.. (viewable here)
Only thing I do need to add to that is the compressor wiring..
If anyone knows how to get striped wires (e.g. red/white) in visio let me know.. I couldn't find any way of doing it so I mixed colors to represent the wires.. (e.g. red/white wire = pink, blue/red wire = purple)
I use visio for all my drawings.. I redrew the entire schematic for my machine using it.. (viewable here)
Only thing I do need to add to that is the compressor wiring..
If anyone knows how to get striped wires (e.g. red/white) in visio let me know.. I couldn't find any way of doing it so I mixed colors to represent the wires.. (e.g. red/white wire = pink, blue/red wire = purple)
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: johnieG on October 09, 2006, 07:18:15 pm
(Skeleton Man @ Oct. 08 2006,9:01)
QUOTE
Well it turns out all I had to do was bypass the resistor.. replaced it with a small length of wire and it now works a charm..
I hope your Capacitor is A.C rated, or you'll be in for a bit of a suprise in a while...( can you say BANG!?) you need to add a Diode in series with terminal "A" this will produce D.C. to charge the cap & create a much more consistant discharge rate
the way you had it wired, with the Cap' & restistor in series would produce a delay in the relays pulling in ( turning on) but it wouldn't allow the Cap' to "hold" the relay "In" at all.
remember R x C = T [resistance x capacitance = time]
so then ... .050f x 535 ohms = 28 seconds until "C" reaches 2/3'ds of "T" & then the relay would pull in.
insofar as the discharge this depends on the resistance of the relays coils in ohms. assuming say 100 ohms , then again R x C applys....about 5 seconds of "hold time" on the relay....
you'll have to excuse me now.. I have to go help Kim Jon Il-brains of north Korea... something about setting off a firecracker down the girls toilet..what a card! Hmmmm
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on October 09, 2006, 07:55:30 pm
(johnieG @ Oct. 09 2006,8:18)
QUOTE
(Skeleton Man @ Oct. 08 2006,9:01)
QUOTE
Well it turns out all I had to do was bypass the resistor.. replaced it with a small length of wire and it now works a charm..
I hope your Capacitor is A.C rated, or you'll be in for a bit of a suprise in a while...( can you say BANG!?) you need to add a Diode in series with terminal "A" this will produce D.C. to charge the cap & create a much more consistant discharge rate
the way you had it wired, with the Cap' & restistor in series would produce a delay in the relays pulling in ( turning on) but it wouldn't allow the Cap' to "hold" the relay "In" at all.
remember R x C = T [resistance x capacitance = time]
so then ... .050f x 535 ohms = 28 seconds until "C" reaches 2/3'ds of "T" & then the relay would pull in.
insofar as the discharge this depends on the resistance of the relays coils in ohms. assuming say 100 ohms , then again R x C applys....about 5 seconds of "hold time" on the relay....
you'll have to excuse me now.. I have to go help Kim Jon Il-brains of north Korea... something about setting off a firecracker down the girls toilet..what a card! Hmmmm
The way I have it wired is exactly how it was wired when I got it.. there is a diode in there for just that purpose.. It chops off the negative half of the cycle so it's DC across the cap..
I know it's not wired like any other time delay that I've seen, but it works !
Don't ask me why it's wired like it is.. I just copied the layout that was there and replaced it with new components..
The capacitor is obviously doing something, because without it there is no delay between the solenoid engaging and releasing, but with the cap it creates like a 1 second delay.. 5 seconds would far too long and would probably result in 2 or 3 cans per vend..
Basic way it works is:
Insert coin -> relays (x2) click -> press button -> solenoid engerises -> 1 second delay as can rolls out -> solenoid de-engerises
I believe the sole purpose of the second relay is to create that 1 second delay.. why they didn't just put a time delay on the credit relay I don't know..
I didn't just blindly throw everything together and say "gee, hope this works".. I have some basic electronics knowledge.. (just enough for basic stuff like this)
Title: Time delay relay
Post by: Skeleton Man on October 09, 2006, 08:11:53 pm
Everyone is probably thinking that there's just AC hot on terminal A and AC neutral on terminal B.. hence thinking the diode, etc is not in series.. but it's not wired like that.. check out the picture below and you will see that the diode and resistor are wired in series with the cap..