Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on April 13, 2006, 07:55:39 pm
I'm working on that VMC56ST I picked up. I've got the whole cabinet stripped down, and everything but the tub removed. I was going to try not to remove that. There was a small rust spot on the bottom, above the compressor deck. I was planning on just filling that spot and throwing some paint at the machine. I hit the machine with a rust killer-- there is no rust mort around here.. I was doing some sanding, and realized that there is more than one rust hole. Upon wire wheeling the area, I ended up with a whole lotta holes. I imagine its more than a bit of bondo to repair now. What is the best way to repair this section? Should I cut this out and butt weld in a patch? Should I just put a plate on top of this rusted out piece? If I have to take the tub out, I will, but I'd rather not.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: aspbear1 on April 13, 2006, 08:19:55 pm
What I would do with those small places you have is go to wal mart and buy one of the fiberglass repair kits for cars. Use them to fix the holes and then smooth with a small amount of bondo. Use a good quality auto primer and you will not be able to tell the difference.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: MoonDawg on April 13, 2006, 09:18:26 pm
Bubba.........it's the underside...........no one will ever see it !
Title: Rust repair
Post by: Eric on April 13, 2006, 11:21:30 pm
Depends on how far you want to go and if you're keeping it.
It would drive me crazy wondering how bad it is and if the bottom of the tub is rusting through.
I'd take the tub out, cut it out and replace that piece... But that's just me and I'm speaking if
it was a keeper... Now if it doesn't matter you might sell it or trade it later on poar some type
of rust nutrilizer (spelling) in there to maybe help prevent anything you can't get to and bondo it up.
Now that 88.... That would be a frame off restoration
It would drive me crazy wondering how bad it is and if the bottom of the tub is rusting through.
I'd take the tub out, cut it out and replace that piece... But that's just me and I'm speaking if
it was a keeper... Now if it doesn't matter you might sell it or trade it later on poar some type
of rust nutrilizer (spelling) in there to maybe help prevent anything you can't get to and bondo it up.
Now that 88.... That would be a frame off restoration
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on April 14, 2006, 05:29:48 am
Thanks Guys... I know its out of site, and I'm not sure what the future is for this machine. Once I own things, I have a hard time getting rid of them . Being that this is my first machine doing any real work on, I wanted to do a decent job with it. My fear with just bondo over the holes is that the rust will come back after its painted. If I patch over top of it with a new piece of metal, than it can rust all it wants, but should last a good amount of time.
Eric.. I am kinda wondering about the whole inside of the cabinet as well, and I may just pull it apart the rest of the way. I am also afraid of what I may find.... As far as the 88 goes, I may replace the wiring and leave it alone for now. Its in good shape, and I think with a bit of cleaning and elbow grease, that machine will look great. There will still be some scratches, but its old....
. Being that this is my first machine doing any real work on, I wanted to do a decent job with it. My fear with just bondo over the holes is that the rust will come back after its painted. If I patch over top of it with a new piece of metal, than it can rust all it wants, but should last a good amount of time. Eric.. I am kinda wondering about the whole inside of the cabinet as well, and I may just pull it apart the rest of the way. I am also afraid of what I may find.... As far as the 88 goes, I may replace the wiring and leave it alone for now. Its in good shape, and I think with a bit of cleaning and elbow grease, that machine will look great. There will still be some scratches, but its old....
Title: Rust repair
Post by: BrianB on April 14, 2006, 08:27:38 am
Bubba -
If your not going to remove the panel and weld a new one place then there are a few different options that work pretty good.
#1 - Remove all loose rust and scale, spray with either Eastwood Rust Encapsulator or POR 15. Patch holes using Bondo Fiberglass. Then spray with a good quality rubberized automotive undercoating to seal the entire thing and also give it a moisture/condensation barrier.
#2 - Substitute Bondo with a sheet of mild galvanized steel available at Menards/Lowes. Cut to fit and use a good quality metal epoxy. Then use undercoating to seal it.
I've use both methods and they both work great!
If your not going to remove the panel and weld a new one place then there are a few different options that work pretty good.
#1 - Remove all loose rust and scale, spray with either Eastwood Rust Encapsulator or POR 15. Patch holes using Bondo Fiberglass. Then spray with a good quality rubberized automotive undercoating to seal the entire thing and also give it a moisture/condensation barrier.
#2 - Substitute Bondo with a sheet of mild galvanized steel available at Menards/Lowes. Cut to fit and use a good quality metal epoxy. Then use undercoating to seal it.
I've use both methods and they both work great!
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on April 14, 2006, 10:22:45 am
I've got some 22ga galvanized sheet stock at work. I brought the machine in today, and I'm gonna cut a patch and tack weld it in place. Then I'll use a seam sealer around the edges to seal it. Prime it and paint with the rest of the machine...
Title: Rust repair
Post by: collecture on April 14, 2006, 01:32:08 pm
Bubba,
The problem I see is that the rust ate the machine from the inside and there will still be a lot of rust inside. Without taking the tub liner out, you are just masking the problem. Moisture will get trapped between the rusty shell and the fix causing more rust. I would take the liner out, seal the whole shell from the inside and replace the liner and insulation.
I am certainly no expert and have never personally restored a machine, but I am a completest.
The problem I see is that the rust ate the machine from the inside and there will still be a lot of rust inside. Without taking the tub liner out, you are just masking the problem. Moisture will get trapped between the rusty shell and the fix causing more rust. I would take the liner out, seal the whole shell from the inside and replace the liner and insulation.
I am certainly no expert and have never personally restored a machine, but I am a completest.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on April 15, 2006, 07:59:35 am
Well, right now, I cut out the really bad spot, and left enough meat to attach a new panel over the top. I've got it installed now, and sealed. One part of me knows I should pull the liner and check for any other rust, and the other part of me is afraid of what I will find. I've still got other work to do before I get to the point of no return. I'm going to see how the rest of the work goes... So far, the MarHyde rust killer I used has done a horrible job. It did a great job of turning the rust spots black, but it did not penetrate the rust and spots that I sanded down smooth still have rust under this stuff... I'm not happy about that so far. I've been working in a low light garage at night... today will be a beautiful day, so I will get it outside in the driveway and see just exactly what is going on... I'll get some pics of the progress...
Title: Rust repair
Post by: coke_and_stuff on April 15, 2006, 09:36:30 am
Ive had around 50 machines and all but one had that rust issue, Ive pulled the liners on almost all and the inside isnt bad just that area. Word of advice the only way to get rid of rust is to kill the rust, or it will come back and haunt you. cut it out and weld a new piece in, If you keep the machines 5-10 years from now you'll be happy you did this.
Joey
Joey
Title: Rust repair
Post by: sodaworks on April 16, 2006, 12:54:55 pm
I'm with coke_and_stuff, anything thing else is just a short cut. Short cuts will deminish your reputation in the restoration business.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on April 16, 2006, 08:10:55 pm
Yeah, I think its coming apart all the way. Its the only thing I haven't torn apart on the machine, and it would be stupid not to at this point. I'm not worried about a reputation since I'm not selling restorations, but I do like to do things right the first time. I've got the bottom replaced, and the whole compressor compartment is primed, but when the machine was on its side, there was water coming from the inside of the machine. Its very apparent that the insulation is wet, so it definately makes sense to open the whole thing and replace the insulation....
Title: Rust repair
Post by: SIGNGUY on April 19, 2006, 09:27:22 am
I've done a few machines, and definately want to redo the insulation, especially if wet.
Question however... what insulation do most of you guys use on these machines, what R rating?
Thanks
John
Question however... what insulation do most of you guys use on these machines, what R rating?
Thanks
John
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on May 05, 2006, 07:36:18 pm
Well, I finally got back into the machine for a bit.. I removed the tub and insulation.. its a good thing I did.. Now the bottom of the cabinet has been repaired from the other side. I welded a plate across the whole bottom, so none of this will ever show through. I do plan on removing as much of the rust as possible, then treating the remaining rust spots. On the sides and back, its a bit of surface rust. I guess I'll just sand down as much as I can then treat the whole inside.. That should be good enough, or is this gonna be a problem cabinet??
And to repeat singuys question, what type of insulation do you use on the inside of the cabinet? It can't be overstuffed, or it will decrease the insulation value. When I pulled the old stuff out. it appeared to be about 3 inches thick...
And to repeat singuys question, what type of insulation do you use on the inside of the cabinet? It can't be overstuffed, or it will decrease the insulation value. When I pulled the old stuff out. it appeared to be about 3 inches thick...
Title: Rust repair
Post by: sodaworks on May 06, 2006, 10:28:23 am
Bubba,
I would cut out the bottom pan but leave a couple of inches all the way around to weld another piece back on to it. Sand blast whats left and flip the machine upside down, measure and cut a new peice of metal into place. Using plug welds and stitch welds. This works well for me. Silicone all inner seams and cover with rubberized under coating in the inside of the cabinet. I use the insulation in "roll form".
I would cut out the bottom pan but leave a couple of inches all the way around to weld another piece back on to it. Sand blast whats left and flip the machine upside down, measure and cut a new peice of metal into place. Using plug welds and stitch welds. This works well for me. Silicone all inner seams and cover with rubberized under coating in the inside of the cabinet. I use the insulation in "roll form".
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on May 06, 2006, 03:14:59 pm
I was thinking about cutting that piece out. I already have a patch in place from the compressor side, so I am just going to cut as much away of the bad stuff as I can, then remove the last bits of rust. I'll hit it with the neutralizer and I like the undercoat idea.
One more question though... I noticed all the seams were sealed along the bottom, and you mentioned sealing it as well. How did the water get in there to begin with?? Wouldn't you want some open holes at the bottom to let any moisture that may develop between the warmer outside cabinet and the cooler inside cabinet??
One more question though... I noticed all the seams were sealed along the bottom, and you mentioned sealing it as well. How did the water get in there to begin with?? Wouldn't you want some open holes at the bottom to let any moisture that may develop between the warmer outside cabinet and the cooler inside cabinet??
Title: Rust repair
Post by: Eric on May 06, 2006, 08:56:25 pm
Maybe the drain or the tub leaked?
Definantly sand blast the entire inside of that cabinet and get all the rust out.
You'll be glad you did.
Definantly sand blast the entire inside of that cabinet and get all the rust out.
You'll be glad you did.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: sodaworks on May 07, 2006, 12:14:58 pm
| Quote (Eric @ May 06 2006,6:56) |
| Definantly sand blast the entire inside of that cabinet and get all the rust out. |
Eric's 100% correct!! Make sure to measure where the drain tube was located so that you can relocate it to the proper location. I solder in the new tube and then I JB weld around the bottom side for added protection.
Title: Rust repair
Post by: bubba on May 08, 2006, 06:28:00 am
I drilled the new hole for the drain tube before I cut the old piece out, so its in the same place. This one was held in with a grommet and the tube passed through the grommet. I should not put it back together that way? The tube is a piece of stainless steel 3/8 OD with a flare on one end that sits flush in the grommet.
I cut out as much of the bottom panel as I could reach with my grinder, and tack welded the new one in place. It was already tacked in from the bottom. Its not going anywhere. I then sand blasted the rest of the panel that was left along with the rest of the inside of the cabinet. I've got 2 smaller holes on the side I need to repair. These have been sand blasted. I think I am going to put a patch from the inside, and then body fill the outside to fix. I don't have tig setup at home, and my mig is a bit much to be doing too much welding on the sides of the cabinet. I don't want to do too much warpage.
I cut out as much of the bottom panel as I could reach with my grinder, and tack welded the new one in place. It was already tacked in from the bottom. Its not going anywhere. I then sand blasted the rest of the panel that was left along with the rest of the inside of the cabinet. I've got 2 smaller holes on the side I need to repair. These have been sand blasted. I think I am going to put a patch from the inside, and then body fill the outside to fix. I don't have tig setup at home, and my mig is a bit much to be doing too much welding on the sides of the cabinet. I don't want to do too much warpage.