Title: Find of the week
Post by: bcharlton on March 28, 2006, 10:30:39 pm
I have finally found my Happy Days Jukebox. It is the last piece I needed for my basemant diner/malt shop. I know nothing about restoring jukeboxes but I have already taken it apart. I have all the parts except the animation motor.The amination motors turn the color wheels that are inside the pilisters. Any help would be apreciated. Also, I will be veneering it and I could use some help with this as well. It selects but makes no sound. I will be re-capping the amp this week. Does anyone know how to clean a pinbank? Also, sometime on a cold start up, I have to help the motor (with a little push) with the first selection. After that, it will select the correct records all day. Do I need to replace the brushes in the main motor? I am a little mory savy with the soda machines. I still am up for a little fun with a square top theme competition.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Brian C
Thanks in advance for any help.
Brian C
Title: Find of the week
Post by: SIGNGUY on March 28, 2006, 11:32:12 pm
Brian, great looking Juke... I want to add one of these models to my collection as well.. right now I just have a Seeburg G, great unit, but would like more (as always) Sure would love to see some photos of this 50's room I've heard about!!! I just posted pictures of my collection in the gallery but want to do a 50's them sometime in the future...
Title: Find of the week
Post by: dr galaga on March 29, 2006, 10:47:21 am
You might try oiling everything.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: David D on March 29, 2006, 11:15:03 pm
Brian,
I just picked up this Seeburg M100B this past weekend, I need to re-cap the amp and receiver and then work out some issues with the selection mechanism. If I find any good links or sites for jukes I'll send them your way-
I just picked up this Seeburg M100B this past weekend, I need to re-cap the amp and receiver and then work out some issues with the selection mechanism. If I find any good links or sites for jukes I'll send them your way-
Title: Find of the week
Post by: on March 29, 2006, 11:32:26 pm
duchon,
May I ask how much you paid?
May I ask how much you paid?
Title: Find of the week
Post by: David D on March 29, 2006, 11:41:55 pm
Markito, I picked this up for $350, plus it was local (1 hour away) so I didn't have shipping. It's complete, I don't think it's been used in 20 years so it's in need of an overhaul.
Thanks,
David
Thanks,
David
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:22:43 am
David -
I am about 80% done restoring my M100B. If you need any help, let me know. I have a ton of resources available. I'm currently finishing up my veneer work and then I get to put it all back together! I would highly recommend taking a boatload of photo's before taking anything apart. Also, you need to have a manual available to reference/troubleshoot.
Brian - Congrats on the "C"! That's awesome! I just got done cleaning my pinbank about three weeks ago and now it works like a champ. There's a video that's currently out by a guy named Mike Zuccaro. He's located out of San Diego and is a technical expert on Seeburg's. This video details the cleaning/maintenance of the: Slection Mechanism, Pinbank and Credit Cancel Unit (CCU). It's very well put together and if you follow it word for word, you'll have no problems.
I definitely wouldn't take it apart without help either from the video or a book. If you made the mistake of removing all of the contacts and pins improperly, you'll have one heck of a time getting it all back together properly.
With respects to your motor problem, your mech is dirty and needs to be removed and cleaned. If not, the mech will never run correctly and you run the risk of eventually burning out your motor. After 50+ years of constant or inconstant oiling without a cleaning, the gears and the clutch and all other parts of the selection mech get all gummy with old oil. If somebody somewhere along the line made the mistake of using WD-40 or regular old 3 in 1 oil to lube it with you will really have to clean the heck out of it. Regular 3 in 1 household oil contains naptha (wax). If used in motors or gears it will eventually gum up the works.
Also, while your in there doing all of that cleaning you should replace the motor coupler. It's the metal ended rubber piece that conects the mech motor to the mech itslef. It's main purpose is to function as the interface from motor to mech but also serves as a vibration isolation device. It stops all vibe from the motor from being transmitted to the mech that would cause audible noise and interference.
Here's some pic's of my mech, it shouldn't be that nasty yellow/brown color.
I am about 80% done restoring my M100B. If you need any help, let me know. I have a ton of resources available. I'm currently finishing up my veneer work and then I get to put it all back together! I would highly recommend taking a boatload of photo's before taking anything apart. Also, you need to have a manual available to reference/troubleshoot.
Brian - Congrats on the "C"! That's awesome! I just got done cleaning my pinbank about three weeks ago and now it works like a champ. There's a video that's currently out by a guy named Mike Zuccaro. He's located out of San Diego and is a technical expert on Seeburg's. This video details the cleaning/maintenance of the: Slection Mechanism, Pinbank and Credit Cancel Unit (CCU). It's very well put together and if you follow it word for word, you'll have no problems.
I definitely wouldn't take it apart without help either from the video or a book. If you made the mistake of removing all of the contacts and pins improperly, you'll have one heck of a time getting it all back together properly.
With respects to your motor problem, your mech is dirty and needs to be removed and cleaned. If not, the mech will never run correctly and you run the risk of eventually burning out your motor. After 50+ years of constant or inconstant oiling without a cleaning, the gears and the clutch and all other parts of the selection mech get all gummy with old oil. If somebody somewhere along the line made the mistake of using WD-40 or regular old 3 in 1 oil to lube it with you will really have to clean the heck out of it. Regular 3 in 1 household oil contains naptha (wax). If used in motors or gears it will eventually gum up the works.
Also, while your in there doing all of that cleaning you should replace the motor coupler. It's the metal ended rubber piece that conects the mech motor to the mech itslef. It's main purpose is to function as the interface from motor to mech but also serves as a vibration isolation device. It stops all vibe from the motor from being transmitted to the mech that would cause audible noise and interference.
Here's some pic's of my mech, it shouldn't be that nasty yellow/brown color.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:24:52 am
Some more:
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:28:43 am
Here's some pic's of my Credit Cancel Unit and Pinbank. All of the paper cap's in my CCU were toast! The ends were blown out and wax was everywhere! The Pinbank photo's show just how dirty it can get.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:29:50 am
More of the CCU:
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:32:14 am
Dirty ole' Pinbank! The contact plate contacts should be shiny silver not sooty black!
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 30, 2006, 07:33:53 am
More of the nasty Pinbank:
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BryanH on March 30, 2006, 03:51:13 pm
Holy crap 
how hard is it to fix those things. With all the chatter here, I've realized that I've had a long time latent need to have one of these machines... but the sight of the mechanics and especially the old electrical parts in this thread has me wondering if buying one would be a good idea.
How much electrical experience is required to make heads or tails out of these things?
how hard is it to fix those things. With all the chatter here, I've realized that I've had a long time latent need to have one of these machines... but the sight of the mechanics and especially the old electrical parts in this thread has me wondering if buying one would be a good idea.How much electrical experience is required to make heads or tails out of these things?
Title: Find of the week
Post by: coke_and_stuff on March 30, 2006, 04:01:48 pm
I have hardly any electrical experience, with the two in my garage its been a nightmare!!!!
Joey
Joey
Title: Find of the week
Post by: David D on March 30, 2006, 11:30:55 pm
Brian,
Thanks for the information and photo's, I'll send you a note if I have additional questions. Just cleaned the pin bank tonight, took a bit of patience to put it back together
. The contacts were really dirty, so hopefully this will resove the selection issue. I still need to re-cap and then test and hope this machine comes back to life.
Many thanks-
David
Thanks for the information and photo's, I'll send you a note if I have additional questions. Just cleaned the pin bank tonight, took a bit of patience to put it back together
. The contacts were really dirty, so hopefully this will resove the selection issue. I still need to re-cap and then test and hope this machine comes back to life.Many thanks-
David
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on March 31, 2006, 09:08:59 am
No problem, David. I'm more than happy to answer any questions that I can.
Bryan, to answer your question, it helps a LOT to have a basic working knowledge of electricity and troubleshooting techniques. Some folks are all self taught with no formal schooling and you'd never be able to tell the difference between them and a professionally trained technician.
There are books available online that deal specifically with basic electronics and electricity. If you can suffer through the reading (it's dry to me!) you can stand to learn a lot. Or, there are some hobbyist books out there that have a really good primer and basic intro to troubleshooting and understanding electrical theory. I picked up an Antique Radio repair book at Borders and three quarters of it is theory and troubleshooting for the layman, really handy and reall well layed out.
At least on a jukebox, the most complicated portion electrically is the amp's, selection reciever, pinbank and selection mech. All of the other wiring in the 40's and 50's boxes are all general power, kinda like a soda pop machine. If you need to replace a cord or a switch, replace it wire for wire. That way you can get exact lengths and you also know exactly where each wire goes.
The great thing about jukeboxes is there are a ton of books/videos that almost completely remove the need for any advanced troubleshooting/electonics knowledge. Like I said before, it's really helpfull, but not always necessary.
Bryan, to answer your question, it helps a LOT to have a basic working knowledge of electricity and troubleshooting techniques. Some folks are all self taught with no formal schooling and you'd never be able to tell the difference between them and a professionally trained technician.
There are books available online that deal specifically with basic electronics and electricity. If you can suffer through the reading (it's dry to me!) you can stand to learn a lot. Or, there are some hobbyist books out there that have a really good primer and basic intro to troubleshooting and understanding electrical theory. I picked up an Antique Radio repair book at Borders and three quarters of it is theory and troubleshooting for the layman, really handy and reall well layed out.
At least on a jukebox, the most complicated portion electrically is the amp's, selection reciever, pinbank and selection mech. All of the other wiring in the 40's and 50's boxes are all general power, kinda like a soda pop machine. If you need to replace a cord or a switch, replace it wire for wire. That way you can get exact lengths and you also know exactly where each wire goes.
The great thing about jukeboxes is there are a ton of books/videos that almost completely remove the need for any advanced troubleshooting/electonics knowledge. Like I said before, it's really helpfull, but not always necessary.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BryanH on March 31, 2006, 05:38:53 pm
Well you never know until you try... so next step is determine what I should be looking for. If anyone has any recommendations please post in this thread.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: bcharlton on March 31, 2006, 06:15:09 pm
Brian and Duchon:
What is the best way to clean the pinbanks. Vern Tinsdale told my to take engine cleaner and spray in down then take windex and spray it down and then hose it off with water. Any other ideas?
BrianC
What is the best way to clean the pinbanks. Vern Tinsdale told my to take engine cleaner and spray in down then take windex and spray it down and then hose it off with water. Any other ideas?
BrianC
Title: Find of the week
Post by: David D on March 31, 2006, 09:15:06 pm
Brian C
I totally disassembled the pin bank and then cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner from radio shack and some very fine grit paper for the real dirty areas. The contact section of the pin bank was easy to clean, the section with pins was difficult to re-assemble. A little trick I used on the pin side was to place a wooden dowel between the two banks of pins to hold them in place while putting the covers back into place.
Not sure about spraying this part down with water, with all of the electrical components and moving parts in the pin bank I wouldn’t think water would be a good mix. But maybe it’s ok if you set it dry for a couple weeks…
Thanks,
David
I totally disassembled the pin bank and then cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner from radio shack and some very fine grit paper for the real dirty areas. The contact section of the pin bank was easy to clean, the section with pins was difficult to re-assemble. A little trick I used on the pin side was to place a wooden dowel between the two banks of pins to hold them in place while putting the covers back into place.
Not sure about spraying this part down with water, with all of the electrical components and moving parts in the pin bank I wouldn’t think water would be a good mix. But maybe it’s ok if you set it dry for a couple weeks…
Thanks,
David
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on April 01, 2006, 09:25:30 am
When it comes to the selection mech itself, using engine degreaser and a pressure washer is ok. You just need to make sure that you de-solder and reomve the mech motor and use plastic sandwich bags to cover up and exposed solenoids. After you get done rinsing the mech, you should used compressed air to remove any residual water. The most critical thing is making sure that RIGHT AFTER you get done drying it, you have to oil/lube the mech! If you don't, it will rust right before your eyes. If your juke didn't come with a lubrication chart, you need to get one. Another reason to get a manual for your juke.
When it comes to Pinbank. DO NOT USE WATER! the pinbank should be removed from the record rack and the contact blocks and the 100 individual contacts should be cleaned using TARNX or any other silver cleaner. If you've never done this before I HIGHLY recommend using a book or an instructional video.
If you remove the pinbank from the record rack and you don't use a scribe to mark the EXACT location/mounting position of the pinbank in relation to the record rack, you are setting yourself up for failure. The alignment between the two has to be dead on for the mech to work correctly.
To keep the actual pins steady and in their correct location during cleaning, I used the Mike Zucarro method. He takes a business card and folds it in half length wise and sticks it in the end between the pins prior to removing the contact blocks. This keeps the pins seperated and prevents them from falling out or becoming misaligned during the cleaning process. I took it one step further and took an old manila folder and cut a long strip that was the same dimensions of a business card only longer and used that. Instead of having to use multiple cards and having to worry about one getting stuck I just used one long strip and that took care of it no fuss, no muss.
When it comes to Pinbank. DO NOT USE WATER! the pinbank should be removed from the record rack and the contact blocks and the 100 individual contacts should be cleaned using TARNX or any other silver cleaner. If you've never done this before I HIGHLY recommend using a book or an instructional video.
If you remove the pinbank from the record rack and you don't use a scribe to mark the EXACT location/mounting position of the pinbank in relation to the record rack, you are setting yourself up for failure. The alignment between the two has to be dead on for the mech to work correctly.
To keep the actual pins steady and in their correct location during cleaning, I used the Mike Zucarro method. He takes a business card and folds it in half length wise and sticks it in the end between the pins prior to removing the contact blocks. This keeps the pins seperated and prevents them from falling out or becoming misaligned during the cleaning process. I took it one step further and took an old manila folder and cut a long strip that was the same dimensions of a business card only longer and used that. Instead of having to use multiple cards and having to worry about one getting stuck I just used one long strip and that took care of it no fuss, no muss.
Title: Find of the week
Post by: bcharlton on April 01, 2006, 11:04:37 am
Thanks for the advise. I am replacing the run start solenoid because of my cold start problem. That should fix the problem. I am using the Seeburg B everyday. The more it plays, the less problems I have with the pin bank. I have over 100 plays without a failure. I may not need to clean the pinbank. As for the Seeburg C, I am doing a complete grade one on it. I hope to have it done on July 1st. Does anyone have advise on a vaneer kit. Should I do it myself or buy one? If you have ever vaneered a Seeburg C, I would apreciate any pointers you may have.
Brian C
Brian C
Title: Find of the week
Post by: rangerdale on April 02, 2006, 01:20:40 am
Regarding oiling of mechanisms and turntable motors what oil is the best to use for the job to prevent the "waxy" build-up that will accumulate over time? I have a Wurlitzer Americana 3110 and don't want to be gumming it up using incorrect oils such as the 3 in 1 brand. 
Title: Find of the week
Post by: davethebirdman on April 02, 2006, 05:42:39 am
The trick is NOT to oil it too often. Providing the machine is used regularily you don't need to
covering everything in oil.
Sewing Machine oil I am told is the best. 3 In 1 according to those that know is the work of the devil.
Dave
covering everything in oil.
Sewing Machine oil I am told is the best. 3 In 1 according to those that know is the work of the devil.
Dave
Title: Find of the week
Post by: David D on April 02, 2006, 10:55:29 pm
Brian B&C,
I found a problem on my M100B in the selection unit, the selection solenoid doesn't have enough power to pull back and release the keys. I took the unit apart and found a broken wire (note red circle in pic) and cannot determine where this should be routed. Any suggestions? It's the 3rd terminal wire on the terminal strip next to the solenoid. I tested the solenoid and it works fine with 110.
Many thanks- and appologies to everyone since I know this is a soda machine site. 3 soda machines and 1 juke, soda machines are much easier to fix...
Thanks-David
I found a problem on my M100B in the selection unit, the selection solenoid doesn't have enough power to pull back and release the keys. I took the unit apart and found a broken wire (note red circle in pic) and cannot determine where this should be routed. Any suggestions? It's the 3rd terminal wire on the terminal strip next to the solenoid. I tested the solenoid and it works fine with 110.
Many thanks- and appologies to everyone since I know this is a soda machine site. 3 soda machines and 1 juke, soda machines are much easier to fix...
Thanks-David
Title: Find of the week
Post by: bcharlton on April 03, 2006, 07:03:53 am
Duchon:
I pulled the pin bank off my Seeburg hf R. It looks the same as my B. I will take a digital picture of the inside so we can tell whenre that wire goes. I should have it for you today.
Brian C
I pulled the pin bank off my Seeburg hf R. It looks the same as my B. I will take a digital picture of the inside so we can tell whenre that wire goes. I should have it for you today.
Brian C
Title: Find of the week
Post by: BrianB on April 03, 2006, 07:50:52 am
There's nothing wrong with 3 in 1 as long as you use the SAE 20 Electric Motor Oil. It's the multi-purpose oil that causes all of the problems. Kinda like Lubriplate!