Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 02, 2006, 12:36:26 pm
Greetings,
Hope everyone had a good Holiday. It appears I have run into a slight problem here. I have received my new compressor from Eric. He married it to my existing interior cooling coil. He did a wonderful job and it purrs like a kitten (Thanks Eric). This machine was missing all the interior brackets and spindles that I have since obtained. It only had the interior coil, fan and fan shroud sheetmetal. When I attempted to install everything I noticed that the cooling coil extended about 3" below the fan shroud and the mounting holes at the bottom did not line up. Then I realized the coil covered the upper left mounting hole on the lower spindle bracket. To make a long story short....I can not mount the spindle bracket because of the longer cooling coil. I thought perhaps the coil was not original, but have seen other pictures with the same coil that extends beyond the shroud also. Were there different types of lower spindle brackets for some of these machines? An easy fix would be to notch out the bracket perhaps?
Question # 2, the fan is wired and runs all the time. Does it need to be this way or can it be also wired through the thermostat to only run when the compressor is running? Was going to call Eric with this but thought I would throw it in while I was here. I hope to have an unvieling here by the end of this mounth
Thanks,
doug
oop'sss...put this on wrong forum, sorry.
Hope everyone had a good Holiday. It appears I have run into a slight problem here. I have received my new compressor from Eric. He married it to my existing interior cooling coil. He did a wonderful job and it purrs like a kitten (Thanks Eric). This machine was missing all the interior brackets and spindles that I have since obtained. It only had the interior coil, fan and fan shroud sheetmetal. When I attempted to install everything I noticed that the cooling coil extended about 3" below the fan shroud and the mounting holes at the bottom did not line up. Then I realized the coil covered the upper left mounting hole on the lower spindle bracket. To make a long story short....I can not mount the spindle bracket because of the longer cooling coil. I thought perhaps the coil was not original, but have seen other pictures with the same coil that extends beyond the shroud also. Were there different types of lower spindle brackets for some of these machines? An easy fix would be to notch out the bracket perhaps?
Question # 2, the fan is wired and runs all the time. Does it need to be this way or can it be also wired through the thermostat to only run when the compressor is running? Was going to call Eric with this but thought I would throw it in while I was here. I hope to have an unvieling here by the end of this mounth
Thanks,doug
oop'sss...put this on wrong forum, sorry.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Kevin C on January 02, 2006, 05:59:14 pm
Hello
The upper evaporator fan motor runs all the time.
Now for the first part of your problem!!!! Maybe better post a picture to show the situation.
Kevin
The upper evaporator fan motor runs all the time.
Now for the first part of your problem!!!! Maybe better post a picture to show the situation.
Kevin
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 04, 2006, 03:57:44 pm
Kevin,
Thanks for the reply. The fan does run all the time. Suppose my question was,, does it need to? Seems would be more efficient if only ran with compressor.
I am not able to post a picture of the machines interior at this time. Was hoping my dilema would ring a bell with someone here. Also, is there a way to move my original post to the correct catagory, "Pre 60's Machines" ?
Thanks,
doug
Thanks for the reply. The fan does run all the time. Suppose my question was,, does it need to? Seems would be more efficient if only ran with compressor.
I am not able to post a picture of the machines interior at this time. Was hoping my dilema would ring a bell with someone here. Also, is there a way to move my original post to the correct catagory, "Pre 60's Machines" ?
Thanks,
doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 04, 2006, 10:36:10 pm
110 views of this post and 1 member reply? Guess not too many familiar with the C-51 here?
Thanks anyway,
Doug
Thanks anyway,
Doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Creighton on January 04, 2006, 11:17:33 pm
Doug,
I've never seen a C-51 and not sure what a spindle bracket might be. Here are some thoughts. Since everything except the spindle bracket is orginal to the machine, it is possible that variations exist. I would not notch an orginal bracket. Can a replacement be fabricated? This would get you up and running until the proper fix is sorted.
The top fan needs to run 24/7. This circulates cold air in the product area and reduces moisture/condensation build up.
Pictures or a rough sketch really help to sort out various issues. This group of folks give 110%. Sometimes an answer can be elusive just because nobody knows.
Creighton
I've never seen a C-51 and not sure what a spindle bracket might be. Here are some thoughts. Since everything except the spindle bracket is orginal to the machine, it is possible that variations exist. I would not notch an orginal bracket. Can a replacement be fabricated? This would get you up and running until the proper fix is sorted.
The top fan needs to run 24/7. This circulates cold air in the product area and reduces moisture/condensation build up.
Pictures or a rough sketch really help to sort out various issues. This group of folks give 110%. Sometimes an answer can be elusive just because nobody knows.
Creighton
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Jim on January 05, 2006, 05:45:01 am
Doug,
Can you provide a photo...?
I'll have to dig into a manual for details and I'm off to work right now so I'll have to get back to you tomorrow...
The evaporator fan is supposed to run all the time to constantly circulate air in the cooling compartment. If this is rewired to function when the thermostat energizes the compressor cycle, you might experience unven cooling of your soda...
Can you provide a photo...?
I'll have to dig into a manual for details and I'm off to work right now so I'll have to get back to you tomorrow...
The evaporator fan is supposed to run all the time to constantly circulate air in the cooling compartment. If this is rewired to function when the thermostat energizes the compressor cycle, you might experience unven cooling of your soda...
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 05, 2006, 05:48:18 am
Doug,
A picture would sure help. I'll look at my machine to see if I can figure out what's wrong. I'm with Creighton, tho--don't notch the bracket--rig something else up until you know what the problem is.
A picture would sure help. I'll look at my machine to see if I can figure out what's wrong. I'm with Creighton, tho--don't notch the bracket--rig something else up until you know what the problem is.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: 90grad on January 05, 2006, 07:42:03 am
Doug,
I have a restoration manual for the C-51, and in one section talking about replacing the refrigeration, it states:
"Loosen the lower spindle channel mounting screws and raise the channel to loosen bottle container conveyer."
To me, this sounds like the lower spindle bracket may be slotted, so it can be adjustable in height. The instructions didn't say to remove the screws, it just says to loosen them. Maybe this is something to try. I'll try to look at mine when I get home.
I do know the evaporator coil in my machine, which is an early model C-51, does not extend beyond the shroud.
I have a restoration manual for the C-51, and in one section talking about replacing the refrigeration, it states:
"Loosen the lower spindle channel mounting screws and raise the channel to loosen bottle container conveyer."
To me, this sounds like the lower spindle bracket may be slotted, so it can be adjustable in height. The instructions didn't say to remove the screws, it just says to loosen them. Maybe this is something to try. I'll try to look at mine when I get home.
I do know the evaporator coil in my machine, which is an early model C-51, does not extend beyond the shroud.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 05, 2006, 09:30:29 am
Doug,
I looked at my machines. One has a cooling unit that hangs below the shroud and the other machine has a shorter unit that does not. Unfortunately, I don't have the mounting bracket for the longer one. But, from looking at the two (they are in different sheds so it wasn't a side by side comparison), I don't see how the mounting bracket I have would fit the other machine because of the coil being longer.
I did see that on the longer coil, the bottom screw holes did not line up with the ones on the liner. They were 1 1/2" to 2" below. The cooling unit was only fastened at the top screw holes. Someone had replaced the fan motor on this machine, so it has been apart. I don't know to what extent it is "original". But, I would think that another mounting bracket could easily be fabricated for your machine. I'm sorry you ran in to this snag. I didn't realize the difference until you posed this problem. Thanks for the heads up.
The manual I have shows the smaller coil with the bracket that I have. I remember talking with someone about the other machine, and was told that it was "the older version". Maybe that is the difference...
Hope I didn't confuse you too much.
I looked at my machines. One has a cooling unit that hangs below the shroud and the other machine has a shorter unit that does not. Unfortunately, I don't have the mounting bracket for the longer one. But, from looking at the two (they are in different sheds so it wasn't a side by side comparison), I don't see how the mounting bracket I have would fit the other machine because of the coil being longer.
I did see that on the longer coil, the bottom screw holes did not line up with the ones on the liner. They were 1 1/2" to 2" below. The cooling unit was only fastened at the top screw holes. Someone had replaced the fan motor on this machine, so it has been apart. I don't know to what extent it is "original". But, I would think that another mounting bracket could easily be fabricated for your machine. I'm sorry you ran in to this snag. I didn't realize the difference until you posed this problem. Thanks for the heads up.
The manual I have shows the smaller coil with the bracket that I have. I remember talking with someone about the other machine, and was told that it was "the older version". Maybe that is the difference...
Hope I didn't confuse you too much.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: 90grad on January 05, 2006, 10:18:19 am
Doug,
I couldn't add a photo to my previous post, so I'll stick it here. This is a picture of the inside and you can kind of see the shroud area. The evap coil is definitely covered. My machine is a 1953 model and doesn't have the condensor fan. It relies on convection cooling. Maybe the units with the condensor fan used the larger evap coil?
I couldn't add a photo to my previous post, so I'll stick it here. This is a picture of the inside and you can kind of see the shroud area. The evap coil is definitely covered. My machine is a 1953 model and doesn't have the condensor fan. It relies on convection cooling. Maybe the units with the condensor fan used the larger evap coil?
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 06, 2006, 06:33:15 pm
Thanks for all the replies. I think Lulu is seeing my problem also. I came to the conclusion that there must be different bracket sets. My machine is a white top from late fifties. It is my understanding that they went to a white top to promote the "Ice Cold" saying. I'm wondering if they used a larger cooling coil in these for extra cold soda and used a different or modified lower bracket to accommodate it. Anyway, it is no longer a problem. Being the impatient person I can be and against advice, I have modified the bracket to fit. I did however, beef up the bracket on the backside to strengthen in the notched area. I think it will be fine. Am still curious though as to the difference in machines. My daughter finally returned my digital camera and I have attached pictures.
Thanks everyone,
doug
Thanks everyone,
doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 06, 2006, 06:35:52 pm
another pic
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Creighton on January 06, 2006, 07:10:12 pm
Glad you are up and running. Machine looks great!!
Creighton
Creighton
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: MCarter on January 06, 2006, 08:17:37 pm
Dprat,
I look today for the drain.....And sorry to tell you i didn't have one. But i will keep looking.
I look today for the drain.....And sorry to tell you i didn't have one. But i will keep looking.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 07, 2006, 06:11:03 am
Doug,
Nice looking machine.
I'm not good with names of parts, but the difference in the machines is that the one with the short cooling coil has a
condensor
? on the outside back of the machine that has a large metal sheild covering it. The one I have like yours doesn't have that. Maybe someone else can put this in the correct terminology.
Nice looking machine.
I'm not good with names of parts, but the difference in the machines is that the one with the short cooling coil has a
condensor
? on the outside back of the machine that has a large metal sheild covering it. The one I have like yours doesn't have that. Maybe someone else can put this in the correct terminology.Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Jim on January 07, 2006, 09:24:56 am
Doug,
Sorry for the delay!
I know you've resolved the issue and this is a mute point; however, I'm still a little foggy on the evaporator size...
Was this machine complete when you disassembled it?
Perhaps I missed something, but if this was a complete machine with the exception of the new compressor, how come the evaporator extends lower than the lower spindle bracket...? Did you acquire parts from another machine to make this complete...?
I only have reference for the older 51 version and it shows the spindle bracket below the evaporator.
Are you sure the evaporator is mounted correctly; it looks as if it could go up a little so it won't extend below the cover...
Sorry for the delay!
I know you've resolved the issue and this is a mute point; however, I'm still a little foggy on the evaporator size...
Was this machine complete when you disassembled it?
Perhaps I missed something, but if this was a complete machine with the exception of the new compressor, how come the evaporator extends lower than the lower spindle bracket...? Did you acquire parts from another machine to make this complete...?
I only have reference for the older 51 version and it shows the spindle bracket below the evaporator.
Are you sure the evaporator is mounted correctly; it looks as if it could go up a little so it won't extend below the cover...
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 07, 2006, 11:18:05 am
Lulu,
The inside coil is the "cooling unit coil" and the exterior one is the "condenser coil". The later C-51's had an "all in one" drop-in unit compressor with condenser below the the machine. Apparently, the cooling coil was different too.
Jim,
My machine did not have any of the interior spindle brackets or bottle belt. I had to track these down. I have attached some "before" pictures to help. My compressor was shot so I sent the cooling coil to Eric of Global and he married it to a new compressor/condenser unit,, so I could not change that easily now. The interior cooling coil could not be moved up because of the fan. Sooner or later we will figure the differences out as it may be helpful to others later.
Jim, is it possible to move topic to "pre 60's" area? I mistakenly posted it "post 60's". Maybe more C-51 guru's there?
Thanks again.
doug
The inside coil is the "cooling unit coil" and the exterior one is the "condenser coil". The later C-51's had an "all in one" drop-in unit compressor with condenser below the the machine. Apparently, the cooling coil was different too.
Jim,
My machine did not have any of the interior spindle brackets or bottle belt. I had to track these down. I have attached some "before" pictures to help. My compressor was shot so I sent the cooling coil to Eric of Global and he married it to a new compressor/condenser unit,, so I could not change that easily now. The interior cooling coil could not be moved up because of the fan. Sooner or later we will figure the differences out as it may be helpful to others later.
Jim, is it possible to move topic to "pre 60's" area? I mistakenly posted it "post 60's". Maybe more C-51 guru's there?
Thanks again.
doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 07, 2006, 11:21:14 am
interior "before".
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 08, 2006, 07:39:56 am
I'll get some pictures of the two machines I have and maybe we can figure this out.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Jim on January 08, 2006, 12:45:49 pm
I haven't had the opportunity to compare the different versions of the C-51 with regards to the refrigeration systems... Interesting though.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 09, 2006, 07:43:14 am
ARRGGH!! I took the pictures, ready to load them, and found out the drive was out on my computer. I'll post them when I get the new drive installed--maybe a week.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: bcharlton on January 09, 2006, 11:05:45 am
I recently restored my c-51 and I have pics. Do you still need them?
BC
BC
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 09, 2006, 07:43:32 pm
BC,
Please review my posts on this topic that describes the problem I ran into. If your 51 has an interior cooling coil that extends and is exposed about 3" below the fan and coil shroud,,(like mine pictured),,yes,,I would be most interested to see a picture showing the lower spindle bracket in that area. Even though I have "fixed" my problem, I think I'm getting obsessed with finding the answer..and I will
Thanks,
doug
PS,,would'nt mind seeing your restoration anyway.
Please review my posts on this topic that describes the problem I ran into. If your 51 has an interior cooling coil that extends and is exposed about 3" below the fan and coil shroud,,(like mine pictured),,yes,,I would be most interested to see a picture showing the lower spindle bracket in that area. Even though I have "fixed" my problem, I think I'm getting obsessed with finding the answer..and I will
Thanks,
doug
PS,,would'nt mind seeing your restoration anyway.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 09, 2006, 08:07:47 pm
Lulu,
I can't imagine what we would do without computers,,, making our lives so much easier and stress free
doug
I can't imagine what we would do without computers,,, making our lives so much easier and stress free
doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 15, 2006, 11:07:09 am
Doug,
Hopefully this picture will post. I have a spindle bracket coming for this machine and I'll see if it is different than the other. I was lucky and picked up an entire ratcheting mechanism and ammo belt for the machine. I had been thinking of making a gun cabinet out of it. . .
Hopefully this picture will post. I have a spindle bracket coming for this machine and I'll see if it is different than the other. I was lucky and picked up an entire ratcheting mechanism and ammo belt for the machine. I had been thinking of making a gun cabinet out of it. . .
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 15, 2006, 12:48:24 pm
Lulu,
Thanks for the pic. From your picyure I can see that the upper left mounting hole for the spindle bracket is showing and accessible. You should not have the same problem I ran into. It does appear that the shroud on yours is shorter perhaps. Looks alittle uneven at the bottom as if it had been cut or maybe one refabricated at some time. Will keep trying to find the answer...if there is one.
doug
Thanks for the pic. From your picyure I can see that the upper left mounting hole for the spindle bracket is showing and accessible. You should not have the same problem I ran into. It does appear that the shroud on yours is shorter perhaps. Looks alittle uneven at the bottom as if it had been cut or maybe one refabricated at some time. Will keep trying to find the answer...if there is one.
doug
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: Lulu on January 16, 2006, 02:34:22 pm
Mystery solved!! I got the other bracket today and it is different. It's factory and hasn't been notched out.
Title: Houston,,we have a problem?
Post by: dprat1 on January 18, 2006, 09:38:24 am
LuAnn,
That bracket is notched similar as I had to do mine. Only I did not cut mounting corner off. Guess I did the right thing. Was really only thing I could do to fit. I have come to the conclusion that, for some reason, some of the later C-51's used or were refitted with a larger coil and they modified the bracket to accommodate it. I suspect that it may have been a parts availability issue if they had to replace the coil for one reason or another. With the later C-51's they maybe no longer had exact replacement coils and used the closest fit available and modified the bracket. I think I'm wearing this issue out, but think will be good information for others here. Will update if I learn further.
Thanks.
doug
That bracket is notched similar as I had to do mine. Only I did not cut mounting corner off. Guess I did the right thing. Was really only thing I could do to fit. I have come to the conclusion that, for some reason, some of the later C-51's used or were refitted with a larger coil and they modified the bracket to accommodate it. I suspect that it may have been a parts availability issue if they had to replace the coil for one reason or another. With the later C-51's they maybe no longer had exact replacement coils and used the closest fit available and modified the bracket. I think I'm wearing this issue out, but think will be good information for others here. Will update if I learn further.
Thanks.
doug