Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: on July 03, 2005, 10:33:07 pm
Take a look at this web site. This guy converted his refrigerator to propane instead of R-12. Hope he doesnt have it next to the stove.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/refrig2.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/refrig2.htm
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: vend_dr on July 03, 2005, 10:56:42 pm
I think he may be taking the refridgeration laws a bit to personal!
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: on July 03, 2005, 11:13:58 pm
I sure dont know anything about refrigeration, but that just does not sound to smart to me.
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: sodaworks on July 03, 2005, 11:53:54 pm
I recently ran across a couple of old refrigerators that operated on natural gas.
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: johnieG on July 04, 2005, 08:39:42 am
<font color='#000000'>First things first,This Idiot has absolutely <u>NO</u> Idea of what he's doing, but thanks to murphy's law & natural selection, he will soon be removed form the gene-pool <!--emo&:laugh:--><img src="http://soda-machines.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'><!--endemo-->
People, even if the system was charged with miracle Pixie-dust, [technical name.. IP2] frosting 4 feet up a suction line is...
A).A severly overcharged system, hacked together by a moron, awaiting an impending severe system failure.
B).An enormous puddle in the making when this glacier defrosts.
C).just plain Stupid.
D). All of the above, especially the part about a torch & a propane charged system...
you will see more about this "genius" in the obituary section, god forbid if he's married, but I hope that if he is, that his wife has the good sense to take out a hefty insurance policy, 'cause it won't be long...</font>
<!--EDIT|johnieG|1120524755-->
People, even if the system was charged with miracle Pixie-dust, [technical name.. IP2] frosting 4 feet up a suction line is...
A).A severly overcharged system, hacked together by a moron, awaiting an impending severe system failure.
B).An enormous puddle in the making when this glacier defrosts.
C).just plain Stupid.
D). All of the above, especially the part about a torch & a propane charged system...
you will see more about this "genius" in the obituary section, god forbid if he's married, but I hope that if he is, that his wife has the good sense to take out a hefty insurance policy, 'cause it won't be long...</font>
<!--EDIT|johnieG|1120524755-->
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: globalcompressors on July 04, 2005, 01:40:34 pm
First time his compressor grounds out, at the terminal and blows the charge.....
BYE BYE BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!
It's bad enough when this happens to a regular system and the oil ignites causing a flame thrower. I had a customer this happened to. He reset the breaker, hit the contactor and BOOM!. The system was a 22 a/c unit, under pressure. The common terminal pin blew out of the compressor, releasing the gas and oil, in a mist. The power was still on when the line arced against the compressor causing a spark. He woke up in hospital with 3rd degree burns over his face, hands, and chest. Rough way to find out the compressor was grounded. Usually when a breaker is tripped, it's for a reason. That's why GOD made ohm meters!
Eric
BYE BYE BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!
It's bad enough when this happens to a regular system and the oil ignites causing a flame thrower. I had a customer this happened to. He reset the breaker, hit the contactor and BOOM!. The system was a 22 a/c unit, under pressure. The common terminal pin blew out of the compressor, releasing the gas and oil, in a mist. The power was still on when the line arced against the compressor causing a spark. He woke up in hospital with 3rd degree burns over his face, hands, and chest. Rough way to find out the compressor was grounded. Usually when a breaker is tripped, it's for a reason. That's why GOD made ohm meters!
Eric
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: dr galaga on July 04, 2005, 01:58:56 pm
With all of this talk, out of curiosity, how do propane refridgerators work in travel trailers? 
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: globalcompressors on July 04, 2005, 05:44:09 pm
It's not propane that cools the refrigerator in an rv. It's an ammonia system that is heated by either a propane burner or an electric heating element. RV refrigerators have no moving parts. The system is an expansion style setup. When the reservoir of ammonia is heated, by an outside source, the pressure builds in the chamber forcing the ammonia thru a metering device, cap tube or expansion valve. It simply relies on heat to build pressure rather than a compressor.
Eric
Eric
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: dr galaga on July 04, 2005, 11:47:52 pm
Thanks Eric. I have often wondered that. I thought that it might have something to do with heat.
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: on July 12, 2005, 08:21:29 am
Actually, interestingly enough, there are companies out there selling hydrocarbon refrigerants for automobiles. The most common is a ~78% propane - 22% isobutane mix. Propane has an almost identical temp-pressure curve when compared to the R-22 used in home units and has very good heat transfer characteristics - the isobutane is added for auto use to bring the head pressures down to something similar to R-12 - its typically charged with about 1/3 the weight of the original R-12. Flammability is an issue in the car, but then again I used to have and old chevy truck that had the gas tank under the seat - 20 gallons of gas vs 12 oz of Propane. Also to note, the oil used in most refrigerants systems is flammable when atomized - spring a leak in the high side of any system and you have the risk of a small explosion. In my V-63, the plaque reads ~ 12 oz of R-12, one could charge it with ~ 4 oz of the Propane/isobutane mix and get very good results. Some people may have concern about it, but as I wander around my house I find a couple of butane lighters we use for the fireplace & candles, a butane refill bottle - easily I probably have 6-8 oz of the stuff in my kitchen.
Anyways, the stuff I saw was called "envirosafe" - they had it in both r-12 and r-22 equivalents - I'm not real keen on putting it in my car, but I wouldn't be too concerned about my refrigerator - especially when I look at that big natural gas outlet right around the corner from it.
Steve
Anyways, the stuff I saw was called "envirosafe" - they had it in both r-12 and r-22 equivalents - I'm not real keen on putting it in my car, but I wouldn't be too concerned about my refrigerator - especially when I look at that big natural gas outlet right around the corner from it.
Steve
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: BrianB on July 12, 2005, 10:23:51 am
Welcome Steveo. It's good to have you aboard. One thing to remember about explosive gases/explosive in general is the packaging. You accidentally ground out your compressor and it's filled with straight propane / R209 and you just set off a very nice fragmentation bomb!! Do the same with R-12 or any other "noramally used refrigerant" and your compressor just bites the dust with some wheezing.
Sure, you have 6-8 oz of butane sitting around your house, so do I (maybe not that exact quantity) but;
likelyhood of accidental/negligent explosion = Not very likely.
All of these items are DESIGNED to carry/operate with and dispense the liquid/gas that they carry. Same goes with gas tanks and natural gas valves/lines and Refrigeration Compressors. (Specifically the guy's compressor from the afore mentioned website)
Sure the oil is flammable in it's vapor state, but, remember that you also need an ignition source to light off the vapor. If a Soda Pop machine refrigeration system "springs a leak" you'd actually be pretty safe unless you are on your back with your head inside the refrigeration compartment smoking a ciggy with your lighter lit.
Pretty safe bet that using propane in a thrown together system is tempting fate and proving Darwin right!!
Sure, you have 6-8 oz of butane sitting around your house, so do I (maybe not that exact quantity) but;
likelyhood of accidental/negligent explosion = Not very likely.
All of these items are DESIGNED to carry/operate with and dispense the liquid/gas that they carry. Same goes with gas tanks and natural gas valves/lines and Refrigeration Compressors. (Specifically the guy's compressor from the afore mentioned website)
Sure the oil is flammable in it's vapor state, but, remember that you also need an ignition source to light off the vapor. If a Soda Pop machine refrigeration system "springs a leak" you'd actually be pretty safe unless you are on your back with your head inside the refrigeration compartment smoking a ciggy with your lighter lit.
Pretty safe bet that using propane in a thrown together system is tempting fate and proving Darwin right!!
Title: Propane instead of r-12
Post by: on July 15, 2005, 01:52:04 pm
Agreed - everything we do carries a risk, but no need to elevate the risk beyond what is necessary. I've stuck with R-134 in my automobiles for that reason. I've heard that the company that originally tried to market it for automobiles was working on blending it with some additive that would inhibit combustion, but I don't think they have found anything yet.
I bought a hard start kit for my V-63, that seems to have brought the thing back to life - I'm not sure how much life the compressor has left in it, but I will have cold drinks in it this weekend (first time in over a year).
Off topic question - these units were originally designed to be ok outside in the elements? I noticed a distinct lack of grounding in my unit - is that true for most? I was going to rewire the compressor deck while I have it out (the insulation is rather hard) and add some real grounding to it - does that seem feasible?
Thanks
Steve
I bought a hard start kit for my V-63, that seems to have brought the thing back to life - I'm not sure how much life the compressor has left in it, but I will have cold drinks in it this weekend (first time in over a year).
Off topic question - these units were originally designed to be ok outside in the elements? I noticed a distinct lack of grounding in my unit - is that true for most? I was going to rewire the compressor deck while I have it out (the insulation is rather hard) and add some real grounding to it - does that seem feasible?
Thanks
Steve