SMC Discussion Areas

Through networking looking for machines I found this gentleman who told me the OC is embossed and not welded.  Pressed with the dyes from the Ideal machine.  He said he has 13 other VMC 81 in an airplane hanger.  Not willing to part with any but could be a "fish that got away" story too.

This could be a short case study example of how finanacially dangerous it could be buying high end machines.

I think the same hanger the bodies from the Roswell crash are being stored at.

       So you met the Jack the Coca Cola Cowboy?   :biggrin:  (I think that's his name).

       Did he also tell you that Santa Claus is real?  I heard he is willing to go to his grave swearing all of his Orange Crush 81's are original.

Let me be clear, there was no attempted fraud. he was honest about the machines .  Glenn, you know a lot !!!!!!!!!!!

My point of the thread was somewhat in the direction of how it could be potentially very risky.  I think we are safe with the pepsi 81, no one is faking those I hear.

This has already been discussed years ago. Let's put it to bed, again.

Ray, I don't want to get into bed with you and discuss soda machines.  But novice people come here, it might good to refresh the topic, machines look cool too.

I appreciate everyone's individual taste in soda machines, and yes I even think the "Orange Crush 81" looks very neat in its commanding presence and appeal to the eye.  However, I am old-fashioned and personally only like original machines with confirmed manufactured status by companies such as Vendo and VMC, not fantasy machines.  I may be wrong, but to date, I am unaware of any soda brand who manufactured an 81 outside of Coca-Cola, Pepsi, 7up, Royal Crown, and a Dr. Pepper (yes I'm aware of the Generic model, in which various decals may have been applied to cater a specific vendor's soda sales).  Collectors within this very network are all aware of fraudulent practices on the parts of many, but if you make or alter a machine, then just be honest and sell it as a "fantasy" machine (like the seller is currently doing on the Ebay RC 81).  Once again, I appreciate the visual appeal of any soda machine, even customized ones, but simply stated, be honest with yourself and potential buyers.  I am very appreciative of a true original machine, so that it can be discerned and validated much easier.  Today, we live in a digital world full of electronic access.  I pose the question, why would you restore a soda machine (like an Orange Crush 81, Hires 81, or a Nesbitts 81 etc., without taking photographs of every single inch of the machine in it's original state?  Every advanced collector on here (who has collected, networked, and done their own research is aware of what actual machines exist, based on known records/archived material, so one should know that their "prototype find" will be scrutinized, thus make it easy by simply revealing everything in the machine's original state, if in fact your machine is truly a scarce new find, as you believe.  This message is not intended at any one particular person at all, and I concede maybe those three machines are real, and worth a fortune!  I'm not an expert, but I do know I will only buy from reputable people if the machine is restored, or just buy an original if it can be found.  I know it's long and drawn out, but I'd hate for people to be misled.  Maybe time will produce documentation in a historical archive somewhere showing an orange crush 81 rolling off a factory assembly line, and we will eat our so-called "know all research" words.  I am not here to judge these specific machines depicted, because I don't know their history, nor have I seen them in person.  I have nothing bad to say about the Coca-Cola Cowboy, or anyone for that matter, I just hope he or anyone else conveys the truth as he or she knows it to be when selling a machine, that's all.           

I'd like to see an original unrestored Orange Crush.  How come one has never shown up??

        Evidently The Ideal Dispenser Company must have loaned Cowboy their dies for use on his generic 81's.  :glare:

.

I was told a rubber mold can be made from an original, then plastic dyes made at the fraction of the cost of metal dyes, but they only last a few presses. 

      I'm glad I'm not the guy trying to stamp embossed letters into 16 guage steel with plastic dies.

If the airplane hangar story is in California, there's some truth to it.....don't know if its the same guy or not

Nevada

I had someone tell me this week that one could buy any flavor of embossed (VMC 81) machine from the manufacturer "in the day" if they wanted to pay the up-charge for it. If that is case, I wonder why we don't see some/any of the off-brands out there? There must have been more than one made if this was the case. With all the people searching the country for rare machines, you would think that someone would have located a few or even two!

I am going to put it on my wish list along with a unicorn.  :laugh: Someone let me know when they open that hanger. LOL!

Resin dies are only good for very thin soft metal. To press a machine door need positive and negative hardened steel dies. Oh, and at least a 100 ton stamping press. Could be done but a very spendy undertaking.
Creighton

I went to the Swapmeet and saw first hand the RC 81 listed on eBay, I can't imagine there be two and both selling right now for the same price. I'll post some pictures of it when I get to the office Monday, my iPhone post too large of files for the pictures unless someone wants me to email them the pics so they can do do for me. Anyhow, the paint on it is a MAACO job at best and horrible lettering to boot. I had to double take once I had seen it at the meet today.

Send the pics to cjs@lost-coast-designs.com I can crop and post.
Creighton

        Everybody on this site does the best job they can on their own machines, and we are proud to share photo's with others.

        We are not here to bash others but we all expect full disclosure on any machine listed for sale to the public, concerning welding, paint, lettering etc.

        Somebody took a big step by cutting into a $3000.00 VMC 81 to weld in those Royal Crown letters, so we are all very anxious to see closer pic's of the finished job.

            Thanks C.F. and Creighton

The Coca Cola Cowboy again OMG.  it was on here years ago   (But lost during the transfer yeah took a quick look)

Honestly I hope people would do there research first before buying , But we all know better they don't  they will buy it and then
come on here  or contact one of us restorer  only to find out  it is not real   .  And yeah  I just had a guy who bought a  ideal 35 Mountian Dew machine   at The Ron Pratt auction it was missing the rack and had the wrong mech . and was told it was the real deal  (Wink Wink ) and paid way to much and then  bummed when he found out it was not real .  we all know better  and would have passed on this, but  we cant be there to tell them no  don't do that  it's not real , We can't be every where to save them .So yeah this will help  if they read it, And we all know maybe only  a small percent will look at this .

 Like Lincoln22 Said  just do it right and be honest with what you have don't try to pull the wool  over someone's eye's .


 My two cents  and I can believe I'm  back on here   :help:

Pics were sent Creighton.

I'm not bashing anyone's hard work by any means, but I do have a huge problem with someone trying to pass something off as something it is in deed not. I asked the guy if it was indeed an original RC machine and he said yes with a professional restoration and had pictures to prove its authenticity which were the same ones on eBay. Anyhow, I'm not upset and totally agree with you on your view of bashing, but if someone had been saving that kind of money to be ripped off is sickening... I only took the pics to keep everyone informed, if it wasn't for this site I would've just walked on by not knowing it was fake or not. Years ago if I came across this, I would've assumed it was original. Anyhow, just putting my .02 out there.

Hey Pat

Nice to see you posting.. Keep it up mate.

Hey CFlatt I'm not saying you're bashing anybody .
I Just can believe this has come up again that's all.
You know if you buy a machine from whomever and you're
Happy that's all that should count.

Thanks Dave we will have to wait and see.

Fraud is fraud the truth is intentionally fabricated .

And the hobby  hopefully  keeps getting new members, so a lot of what we call old news isn't to them. The first time I heard of the OC machine and the Cowboy was here. I will continue to share whatever knowledge I have to the new onwa to keep the hobby going

Any luck third time is the charm....
Creighton

Notice how the RC is missing the trademark R...

Yep 

Were do all these fake embossings come from?

I think the registered trademark is there it just isn't painted... I down loaded the image and enlarged it... though its resolution is low there looks
to be something beside the N in CROWN... the paint job, by hand, isn't the best but someone tried.
Is this particular machine known/thought to be altered?
As far as where the fakes are coming from.. someone, had made a die and has stamped out the embossed panels... these panels have shown up
over the years on ebay and sell. I'm not sure about 7up panels but I have seen 2 RC panels on ebay in the past years. All you need then is a VMC
machine and a welder... It's a shame.

soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,18884.0.html (http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,18884.0.html)

        And it doesn't even have to be a generic 81.  :glare:
     
         http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vendorlator-VMC-Model-33-striped-coke-pepsi-Soda-Machine-/301577537923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46376c0983&nma=true&si=wPC2kOfiQR6LSE53S5oZYm0kaE4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vendorlator-VMC-Model-33-striped-coke-pepsi-Soda-Machine-/301577537923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46376c0983&nma=true&si=wPC2kOfiQR6LSE53S5oZYm0kaE4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

I've seen the machine in person- before it was put back together and I saw the inside as well (behind the door liner) the trademark stamp  is very faint-just like the one I bought which I'm 99.9% sure is not authentic. The lettering was done by the paint guy because he was doing him a "favor" - which by the way he didn't ask for... He should have made him repaint it.

Crop of the original image for the area in question.
Creighton

Again low resolution but I think something is there just not as defined as others I've seen.

Eric,
Think you are correct. Painted over.
Creighton

Would need a closer image to be 100% .. But it doesn't seem to be embossed like the one Joey owns. The trademark on his
seems to sit higher... same goes for the Pepsi's... these seem to be from a better stamping...
But it could be that they hit it a little too hard when sanding prepping for paint or paint too thick.  Who knows...

The TM on my Pepsi is very light.  I think it is due to the restoration process. Between media blasting and high build primer then paint it just gets covered up.

I intentionally did not letter that part because it is so hard to see.