Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on February 08, 2005, 11:39:21 pm
I took my refrigeration system out and cleaned it thoroughly. Replaced the wiring harness and replaced all the cracked and/or brittle wires. Carefully put it together watching for polarity. Seems to work ok. I'm getting frost on the top evap coil within 3 minutes and within 10 I had the whole back row frosting (see pic).
I have a few questions -
#1 - both fans are blowing towards the back. They are not blowing air through the coils (which is what I expected)? Instead they are drawing air from the front; through the evaporator and condenser coils. Is this correct or did I mess up the polarity of the fans?
#2 - based on an open bench setting can you determine how well the system is cooling by the time it takes to frost? or some other measure? Before I started tearing it apart it cooled to about 40F. I'm hoping that with a good cleaning I'll be able to drop it to the low 30s? Was wondering if there is any way to guage this before I reassemble everything?
I have a few questions -
#1 - both fans are blowing towards the back. They are not blowing air through the coils (which is what I expected)? Instead they are drawing air from the front; through the evaporator and condenser coils. Is this correct or did I mess up the polarity of the fans?
#2 - based on an open bench setting can you determine how well the system is cooling by the time it takes to frost? or some other measure? Before I started tearing it apart it cooled to about 40F. I'm hoping that with a good cleaning I'll be able to drop it to the low 30s? Was wondering if there is any way to guage this before I reassemble everything?
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on February 08, 2005, 11:46:32 pm
Just a newbie here talking, but why would you want lower 30's, wouldn't that freeze your drinks and make them explode? I have always heard that 40 degrees is just perfect.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on February 08, 2005, 11:54:54 pm
Markito - it's just personal preference for ice cold cerveza when it hits 115F (I live in AZ). In the winter months we keep it warmer but in the summer, especially for parties, it's nice to take them out frosty.
Would also like to know that the machine has some room to play in its' temp range.
Would also like to know that the machine has some room to play in its' temp range.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Paul M. on February 09, 2005, 12:21:41 am
On the polarity thing... Its AC. So it doesn't matter. And the fans should pull air from the front of the machine and blow it out the back. So things are working right. Good job!
On the cooling... Someone else mentioned in another thread that you can't gage the cooling capacity on the bench. And I can see why. Factors such as air flow, humidity, and air temperature will play a major role in how much and how fast frost accumulates on the coils. Best to check it with a thermometer and installed in the cabinet. There is also something called a "precool capacity." I'm really not sure on this but I think it has something to do with the minimum number of drinks that need to be in the machine in order to cool to its proper temperature. Something about the volume of displaced air.
On the cooling... Someone else mentioned in another thread that you can't gage the cooling capacity on the bench. And I can see why. Factors such as air flow, humidity, and air temperature will play a major role in how much and how fast frost accumulates on the coils. Best to check it with a thermometer and installed in the cabinet. There is also something called a "precool capacity." I'm really not sure on this but I think it has something to do with the minimum number of drinks that need to be in the machine in order to cool to its proper temperature. Something about the volume of displaced air.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 09, 2005, 04:40:58 am
Yep,
Gotta get the compressor back in the machine to test it properly. It was designed to cool down the interior volume space of the coke machine, not your garage (discovered this the hard way...makes sense in hindsight haahaa!). Also, "precool capacity" deals with the number of bottles that could be "stored" in the machine for refill purposes. Back in the day, bottle machines were designed with extra room to store bottles in the bottle compartment. That way they stayed cold and when it came time to refill the machine, those bottles would go in first then fresh, warm bottles to complete the refill, then restock the precool area for next time. In fact, Kita, on your Vendo 216, there should be two shelves attached to the left and right sides of the bottle compartment that you use to stack your precool bottles.
Gotta get the compressor back in the machine to test it properly. It was designed to cool down the interior volume space of the coke machine, not your garage (discovered this the hard way...makes sense in hindsight haahaa!). Also, "precool capacity" deals with the number of bottles that could be "stored" in the machine for refill purposes. Back in the day, bottle machines were designed with extra room to store bottles in the bottle compartment. That way they stayed cold and when it came time to refill the machine, those bottles would go in first then fresh, warm bottles to complete the refill, then restock the precool area for next time. In fact, Kita, on your Vendo 216, there should be two shelves attached to the left and right sides of the bottle compartment that you use to stack your precool bottles.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 09, 2005, 04:56:49 am
Here's a pic to describe what I was talking about concerning "precool capacity". Note the shelves (circled). You stack precool bottles there just like you stack the ones in the bottle racks.....of course, in my case, I don't have enough money to put 144 bottles in my machine PLUS the 87 bottle precool capacity. 
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 09, 2005, 04:58:34 am
Oops.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BrianB on February 09, 2005, 06:53:39 am
Absolutely nothing to do with the original questions but, That's an awesome looking machine Eric!!!!
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Kevin C on February 09, 2005, 09:40:46 am
Hello
Just picking up on this thread.
Yes the fan motors pull air across the two coils to allow for the heat transfer. The lower coil down by the compressor transfers heat & the upper coil/evaporator transfers cold to the air. This is a simplistic overveiw. If you want a more detail explanation let me know.
If after cleaning the coils & replacing the fan motors your cooling system frosts up as you described it is working correctly. There is not way to test the operation for the cooling when it is out of the machine.
Kevin
Just picking up on this thread.
Yes the fan motors pull air across the two coils to allow for the heat transfer. The lower coil down by the compressor transfers heat & the upper coil/evaporator transfers cold to the air. This is a simplistic overveiw. If you want a more detail explanation let me know.
If after cleaning the coils & replacing the fan motors your cooling system frosts up as you described it is working correctly. There is not way to test the operation for the cooling when it is out of the machine.
Kevin
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on February 09, 2005, 10:02:37 am
| Quote (joesquid @ Feb. 09 2005,3:40) |
| In fact, Kito, on your Vendo 216, there should be two shelves attached to the left and right sides of the bottle compartment that you use to stack your precool bottles. Note the shelves (circled). You stack precool bottles there just like you stack the ones in the bottle racks.....of course, in my case, I don't have enough money to put 144 bottles in my machine PLUS the 87 bottle precool capacity. |
Eric, I didn't know you had a V-144! How wonderful, now I finally have a relative and don't feel so alone with my V-216MD!
Actually, as you will see from the following photo, there is no room for pre-cool shelves, because the entire interior is filled with vending chutes. Hence the capacity of 216 drinks.
They replaced the sheves with chutes on the V-216MD (Multi-Drink) model.
By the way, the interior of your machine is amazing, it looks brand new! Can we see pics of the exterior too? I look forward to chatting with you at some point.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on February 09, 2005, 10:20:44 am
Ok - thanks for all the replies.... We'll get the refrigeration unit back inside and test its revitalized cooling capability. It'll be awhile as the machine is completely disassembled for cleaning and painting.
Can I paint the evap and condenser assemblies? I've cleaned all the gunk off them and the condenser coils (inside the fins) actually look like paint has flecked off. Would be nice to have it cleaned and shiny but I don't want to hamper its cooling ability.
Can I paint the evap and condenser assemblies? I've cleaned all the gunk off them and the condenser coils (inside the fins) actually look like paint has flecked off. Would be nice to have it cleaned and shiny but I don't want to hamper its cooling ability.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 09, 2005, 04:43:46 pm
Kito,
You're absolutely right about the 216!! Sorry for the mis-information. I put more pics of my Vendo 144 on the photo gallery portion of this website (thanks Jim!!!) under the "Before and After" section. I'm glad you decided not to tempt fate taking your monstrosity downstairs. for some reason I don't think "MAN KILLED BY COKE MACHINE" is a fitting epitath on the 11:00 news.
Hartlenb,
yes you can paint the compressor assembly. I'e seen a wide variety of paints used. Personally, I used glossy black appliance spray paint on the condensor and compressor and just cleaned up the evaporator (mine was already in good shape). There's a pic of the finished product in the photo gallery listed above. If anyone else has paint experience with the compressor assembly, chime in!!
You're absolutely right about the 216!! Sorry for the mis-information. I put more pics of my Vendo 144 on the photo gallery portion of this website (thanks Jim!!!) under the "Before and After" section. I'm glad you decided not to tempt fate taking your monstrosity downstairs. for some reason I don't think "MAN KILLED BY COKE MACHINE" is a fitting epitath on the 11:00 news.
Hartlenb,
yes you can paint the compressor assembly. I'e seen a wide variety of paints used. Personally, I used glossy black appliance spray paint on the condensor and compressor and just cleaned up the evaporator (mine was already in good shape). There's a pic of the finished product in the photo gallery listed above. If anyone else has paint experience with the compressor assembly, chime in!!
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on February 09, 2005, 05:43:39 pm
Thanks Eric. I'll check out the pics. One last question (sorry wrong thread), is the bezel around your coin return just like trim around the edge (with tabs), or does a tube section line the inside of the return?
Thanks,
Thanks,
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Kevin C on February 09, 2005, 09:14:34 pm
Hello
I spray paint the lower coil & compesssor black & then the upper evaporator coil silver/gray.
Here is a picture.
Kevin
I spray paint the lower coil & compesssor black & then the upper evaporator coil silver/gray.
Here is a picture.
Kevin
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Kevin C on February 09, 2005, 09:15:58 pm
Hello
Here are one of my lower coils painted.
Kevin
Here are one of my lower coils painted.
Kevin
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on February 09, 2005, 09:18:12 pm
and I thought the gleam came from hard work . Any special paint: tremclad, appliance or something else?
. Any special paint: tremclad, appliance or something else?Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 09, 2005, 10:10:26 pm
| Quote (Markito @ Feb. 09 2005,4:43) |
| ....is the bezel around your coin return just like trim around the edge (with tabs), or does a tube section line the inside of the return? |
Kita,
If memory serves correctly, my coin return is held in place by little bending tabs. Unfortunately, I'm currently on temporary duty away from my home so can't go out to look at the machine but I'm fairly certain that the bezel is simply held in place by tabs.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Paul M. on February 10, 2005, 12:25:57 am
Thanks Eric (or joe?) for setting me straight. One of these websites has a glossary of coke machine terminology and "pre-cool capacity" was not in it. Does this refer only to machines that have pre-cool space specifically built for this pupose? I suppose I could stand up several bottles on the floor around the evaporator coil for pre-cooling, but somehow I don't think that was the intent.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 10, 2005, 06:40:23 am
Paul,
It's Eric (JoeSquid is an old Navy Joke). What kind of machine do you have? Several models used the open area near the evaporator as the pre-cool staging area so you could have the right idea for your machine. Some machines weren't designed for pre-cool staging areas, and, honestly, I think the whole idea for pre-cool staging was an afterthought in some machines. Something along the line of someone noticing that there was a lot of empty space in the machine design and how could it be utilized. Someone else answered that question with the "pre-cooling" idea and SHAZAM!!!!......we have precooling.:p
It's Eric (JoeSquid is an old Navy Joke). What kind of machine do you have? Several models used the open area near the evaporator as the pre-cool staging area so you could have the right idea for your machine. Some machines weren't designed for pre-cool staging areas, and, honestly, I think the whole idea for pre-cool staging was an afterthought in some machines. Something along the line of someone noticing that there was a lot of empty space in the machine design and how could it be utilized. Someone else answered that question with the "pre-cooling" idea and SHAZAM!!!!......we have precooling.:p
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: MoonDawg on February 10, 2005, 11:03:02 am
If one or more selectors runs empty, it's nice to have a few pre-cooled bottles to add before the warm ones.
Eric- That's a pretty nice Vendo 56 you're bidding on. $50.00
? Do you know if the seller is real? 0 feedback?
Eric- That's a pretty nice Vendo 56 you're bidding on. $50.00
? Do you know if the seller is real? 0 feedback?Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Paul M. on February 10, 2005, 01:00:18 pm
Eric,
I have a V-63.
I have a V-63.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 10, 2005, 07:28:23 pm
Glen,
Yeah it's nice and even better if for real. Here's how I look at it:
1. Everyone starts with "0"
2. Something like this I pay in person and only after I've assured myself nothing underhanded is taking place.
3. I've already been outbid!!
4. I've got other brands in the fire. If this one doesn't work out, there's always others out there. I'm already working on two separate deals for square tops (two of my buddies are dying to have one!) so in the end it's all good.
5. I still have two Vendo 39s, one Westinghouse WC44SK, and one Vendo 23 to finish restoring.
6. My wife hasn't divorced (or killed) me yet over my incredibly addicting hobby!
"Just another day in paradise!"
Yeah it's nice and even better if for real. Here's how I look at it:
1. Everyone starts with "0"
2. Something like this I pay in person and only after I've assured myself nothing underhanded is taking place.
3. I've already been outbid!!
4. I've got other brands in the fire. If this one doesn't work out, there's always others out there. I'm already working on two separate deals for square tops (two of my buddies are dying to have one!) so in the end it's all good.
5. I still have two Vendo 39s, one Westinghouse WC44SK, and one Vendo 23 to finish restoring.
6. My wife hasn't divorced (or killed) me yet over my incredibly addicting hobby!
"Just another day in paradise!"
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: joesquid on February 10, 2005, 07:31:56 pm
Paul,
The pre-cooling idea was mostly a 40s-50s invention. By the 60s the idea had lost its attraction and more efficient vending designs had been developed so most machines (especially square-tops) were built without pre-cool staging areas.
The pre-cooling idea was mostly a 40s-50s invention. By the 60s the idea had lost its attraction and more efficient vending designs had been developed so most machines (especially square-tops) were built without pre-cool staging areas.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on March 23, 2005, 02:37:46 pm
Just wanted to show some progress... Many of the folks here on the boards have inspired me to make my machine gleam. Well with lots of elbow grease, many cleaners and some paint (hammerite sprayed with my compressor) I finally have something to show....
Will also start a separate thread to show work as it progresses. All in all, I'm pretty pleased with the results especially as it's the first time I've ever painted anything with a compressor spray gun.
Will also start a separate thread to show work as it progresses. All in all, I'm pretty pleased with the results especially as it's the first time I've ever painted anything with a compressor spray gun.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on March 23, 2005, 02:54:32 pm
Good job Bryan. Looks great. 
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: Jim on March 23, 2005, 03:56:02 pm
Lookin' good!
Have you finished polishing the fan blade...?
One thing I would like to suggest to really finish the condensing plate is to include a fan shroud as many of these systems had these to force air through the condensor core. This is also supposed to enhance performance a little... There are reproductions available for various condensor cores; however, one can be made relatively easy with a little effort...
Have you finished polishing the fan blade...?
One thing I would like to suggest to really finish the condensing plate is to include a fan shroud as many of these systems had these to force air through the condensor core. This is also supposed to enhance performance a little... There are reproductions available for various condensor cores; however, one can be made relatively easy with a little effort...
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on March 23, 2005, 04:42:52 pm
Wow! Looks really great!
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on March 23, 2005, 04:48:22 pm
Thanks Lars/Jim.
Still need to polish the fan blades and paint the bodies. If they don't turn out nice enough I'll just replace them. My machine actually came with a metal shroud... which also turned out pretty good (only a bit of paint sag) for a rookie.
Still need to polish the fan blades and paint the bodies. If they don't turn out nice enough I'll just replace them. My machine actually came with a metal shroud... which also turned out pretty good (only a bit of paint sag) for a rookie.
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: johnieG on March 23, 2005, 09:40:03 pm
patience is a needed between "coats" grasshopper 
But all in all, very nice job indeed!
But all in all, very nice job indeed!
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: globalcompressors on March 31, 2005, 10:05:13 pm
Need a job? Looks nice. One thing I have learned, always....use a good quality paint. The luster will last longer!
Eric
Eric
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: BryanH on April 06, 2005, 07:38:57 pm
Thanks Eric - I'll keep the employment offer in mind... of course at that rate I work it'll be hard to make a living workig for 5 cents or less an hour (btw - anyone know where the 'cent' sign went on the keyboard... used to be ctrl or shift 6).
Master PO (aka JohnieG) "From the crane, we learn grace and self-control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger, we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. From SMC we learn to buy, trade, restore and refurbish. Life sustains life, and all living creatures need nourishment. Yet with wisdom, the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live"
Master PO (aka JohnieG) "From the crane, we learn grace and self-control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger, we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. From SMC we learn to buy, trade, restore and refurbish. Life sustains life, and all living creatures need nourishment. Yet with wisdom, the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live"
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on April 06, 2005, 10:57:14 pm
Title: Vmc-56 refrigeration system
Post by: on April 06, 2005, 10:58:30 pm
| Quote (hartlenb @ April 06 2005,7:38) |
| "From the crane, we learn grace and self-control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger, we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. From SMC we learn to buy, trade, restore and refurbish. Life sustains life, and all living creatures need nourishment. Yet with wisdom, the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live" |
That's some deep sh
t.