SMC Discussion Areas

How many ounces of mineral oil do older Westinghouse compressors take?

That is a loaded question that deserves several questions in reply -

How do you know you need to add oil?

How long did the compressor run low on oil?

What is the model number of the compressor?

And 1 comment -

If the system has lost oil like these systems usually do (seepage through the hot gas line due to corrosion and rust) then chances are, with the age of this system and the inherent flaws in it's original manufacture, the compressor will not be reliable, and you might as well change it out as well - at the same time correcting the inherent flaws.

Westinghouse model L-25-CF, (1941). Getting ready to charge the system but wanted to drain out old oil. Only got maybe an ounce or so. The thing has sat for years but is functional. No shorts or grounds, and does run with a new 3 in 1 wired to it.

I am pretty certain that is the Model number of the box, not of the compressor or compressor deck. That is the information that is needed.

I don't recall Westinghouse building these small compressors for refrigeration, maybe they did. They did build complete boxes, but they may have bought the refrigeration deck from Seeburg or Cavalier or someone like that. I am willing to bet the compressor is a Tecumseh, but would still need to know the Model number.
And, are you certain the rest of the oil isn't in the evaporator or condenser? If the system leaked at any point, the loss of charge reduces refrigerant velocity to the point that it will no longer carry the oil - starting with leaving it in the evaporator, then condenser (but if it ran long enough to do this, I wouldn't waste another minute on the compressor, running or not, and change it).
How oil works in a refrigeration system is much more complicated than it is in a car.

The next issue is, again, have you found the source of the oil leak if there is only an ounce, and fixed it? Because if you don't fix it, it won't hold the new oil, much less the refrigerant you are going to put into the system (which will leak out quicker than the oil).

L-25-CF is a refrigeration unit model number used by Westinghouse. Whether they purchased the actual compressor from another company (i.e. Tecumseh) - I don't know, but attached is a scan out of one of my manuals. Sorry, but it does not contain technical data such as amount of oil in the compressor.

Look on the compressor - there should be a nameplate on it, a thin metal plate that has numbers and letters embossed. Usually about 1 inch tall by 3-4 inches wide. If you can't read it, take some chalk and scratch across the plate, then lightly wipe the chalk that is not in the embossing way.

And/or, take some pictures of the compressor/condenser deck so we can help identify it.

Hard to tell from the picture you sent as it won't blow up and still be legible. If you could, rescan at a larger size and maybe resolution. If the numbers look like they are for Seeburg's and Cavalier's, then I might can dig into a lot of my old reference material that I've got around here.

The only mark stamped on the compressor is a 4 digit number, 9661. The Westinghouse data plate was screwed to the deck, showing model number, refrigerant type, blah blah blah...
I never knew if this thing leaked due to the fact that it was a non running unit that sat for decades in the Vendo Junior. It was an untouched unit. I had the line removed and placed under pressure to test for leakage. (Holding pressure) The compressor I had media blasted and I primed and repainted it. Our member "Ken" provided the needed 3 in 1, and a new fan motor.
Like I said earlier, I tested the contacts electrically and found no shorts or grounds. But I understand what you are saying regarding a leak. Just won't know until we charge it.

Mmmm -

Let me tell you what I'm thinking (Like I haven't before) - you've got an ~60 year old compressor that you could only get 1 oz of oil out of (1/4 - 1/2 HP compressors manufactured by Tecumseh back in those days had oil charges between 16 and 40 ounces depending on the shell size.).

Back in those days, when they silphossed the steel, they didn't protect the steel with anything. The phosphorous in the silphoss will cause microscopic pinhole leaks in the steel, which is evidenced by what i said yesterday, a wet looking appearance at the hot gas line (which is usually where they used steel tubing). Now, for a unit that may have leaked a long time ago, there may no longer be any evidence of the oil, but the microscopic holes will still be there. They may show up again with a leak test, and for sure they will show up if you use a micron gauge to read that you've achieved less than 500 microns in vacuum (which you need to make sure you do, if the system was left open for any length of time over an hour or so).

So, back in the days when it was last used, it was probably running but began loosing charge and oil through that leak, and got to a point where it didn't cool anymore and someone put  it in storage for it to fall into your hands someday in the future.

FWIW - I have 3 GGD-C's, and a friend has another one, and all four of them were identical - compressor's ohmed out OK, two of them would start and run for about 30 seconds, another would run but not cool, and the last one I was told "it ran the last time we plugged it in" but it has the same compressor deck as the other 3.
The one that ran but didn't cool, I couldn't get it to vacuum down below 1000 micron or so. Found the bad hot gas line. Replaced the line, pumped it down, charged, and it ran for about 2 minutes before it seized up.
One of the one's that ran for 30 seconds, upon replacing the compressor and trying to evacuate it down, I couldn't get less that 1500 micron. Found the same issue with the hot gas line. Replaced the line and compressor, and when recovering the oil from the compressor, there was barely 1-2 ounces for a compressor that was supposed to have 22 ounces of oil (and none found in the rest of the system).
I have not had a chance to work on the 4th one yet - but guess what I am going to do first? Replace the compressor and the hot gas line.

Again, post a picture of the compressor and the deck it's in, and I might can help identify the compressor they used by sight. 

Send me a PM with your email and I can send some pics. The jpg format here allows very small images.

My refrigeration guy has 100 lbs of nitrogen in the compressor and it is holding. Now, should I go ahead and attach the condensing coil to the water bath and recharge it? The interior basket is missing, so it really can't vend without it.
Just looking at cost right now. I want to sell it, but may not go any further with the refrigeration.
Your thoughts? (This is a restored Vendo Junior with restored coin mech and hand painted lettering)

It's best to nitrogen pressure test the complete refrigeration system, not just the compressor, or any partial section of the refrigeration system. Without doing this, you haven't accomplished anything.

So, it's your call as to whether to proceed. javascript:void(0);

I have the condensing coil already pressurized and holding.

But you still don't know if, when connecting everything up, that you have a leak proof system. That may be what you intend and if so, I apologize for the perspective that I am coming from.

But if you do have a leak, once everything is connected and pressure checked, in all likelihood it will be at one or both of those two connections since you've confirmed the individual assemblies don't have a leak.

For what it's worth, the EPA (as well as yourself) shouldn't care if the partial assemblies are leak proof - only that the completed system is leak proof.

Does it look like this?

I think that is the one he has, or real similar to it. He sent me a picture one time, but I don't recall where I put it. But as I remember, the picture you are providing is close.