SMC Discussion Areas

I am currently working part time at a body shop a good friend of mine owns and I am going to start having machines painted there. The main painter had some questions for the expert painters on here. I know the original paint for most machines is dupont dulux enamel but is that an an acrylic enamel or an epoxy enamel?

Do you all strip your machine to bare metal before painting? If and when you don't strip the paint have you ever had any problems with adhesion? He is worried about using incompatible paints and having problems with pealing, wrinkling or bubbling/flaking over time. What do you suggest? Any hints and tips are very welcome!!

What paint do you usually use for your machines? What brands, base clear or single stage and what primers do you prefer? the shop I work at currently sprays PPG DBC (Deltron base clear) and House of Kolor base clear. They are great paints but they can be very very expensive. What do you use on your machines?

We are wanting to possibly go full scale building soda machines and other collectables. We have the space and equipment and are building some very nice cars. Our painter/owner of the shop is top notch. He is an old friend and learned the old school way (the right way) to do body work and is enthusiastic about getting into this. We are currently working on a 31 ford model A and next is a 67 mustang. I think our customers will be a good fit for marketing machines to. Attached is a pic of the machine we are building. Just wanted to show off a little  :biggrin: The fenders are removed and are being dipped. I have been stripping the machine over the past few days and its now almost naked. We will be getting it ready for an ultra slick House of Kolor paint job.

Josh,

As far as Dupont Dulux goes, it was a single-stage Alkyd Enamel. Dupont Centari was the next major paint formula that was used on soda pop machines. Centari is a single-stage acrylic enamel.

It seems like most restorer's use base/clear because customers like the look. Personally, I like Centari. If you chip or scratch a single-stage paint like Centari, it's easily reapaired. base/clear isn't that easy.

What about coverage and adhesion problems. Does the machine need stripped totally before primer and paint? Thank you for the info!

I myself always blasted everything metal. This way there would be no adhesion probs. Then yap out any dents etc. Fill/patch any bad areas with new metal. Grind/fill and then prime. Wet sand down the primer and then I always use a tack rag to clean it b4 any paint.
 I started out using enamel and then went to base/clear paints

use high quality paint and I would stay  away from any acrylic enamels as the newer paints are so much nicer to work with. And not all of them are base coat clear coat.

I would be scared if I did not get the machine down to bare metal. No telling what kind of rust / previous work would come back to haunt me.

Do it right and do it once. It gets expensive going back to repair something you had no knowledge or control over.

I don't paint myself, but I prefer base clear over single stage. I understand the ups and downs of both. Quality I'm sure has improved. But I had a bad experience with single stage years back.

Little tip if you use single stage and get a run. I always had little pieces of masking tape raedy. If I got a run, I fold the tape so it was kinda like a loop and just barely touch the run with the tape and it would take the run out. Then hit with a quick shot of paint again and it blends right in. Little tricky at first, but it worked. :biggrin:

That's a good tip Mark!

Josh, I personally wouldn't just scuff up an original paint job and re-paint from there. You have no idea of the integrity of the original paint and what's lurking beneath. It's better to take the machine down to bare metal. If you guys don't plan on doing any sort of abrasive balsting yourselves, find a good , reputable "blaster" with references and have them do it. Or...

If you have the coin, buy a nice blasting cabinet with a good vacuum system, you can get a good one for under $1000. You can do the majority of the parts yourself that way. About the only thing I can't fit into my cabinet soda pop machine wise is the Machine Body, Main Door & Liner. If you want to delve into outside blasting, you can get a nice rig for under $500.

The most critical part is the quality of the pot blaster (try to stay away from the Chinese Blaster's like Clarke) The valves and the gauges are terrible! The other critical part is the compressor you have pushing it. An upright 80 Gallon, 2-Stage compresor with a good moisture separator will do the job nicely and can be had for around $500. Also, you will need an nice blasting helmet with supllied air for breathing. Safety is paramount!! I've seen to many people blating with little or no protection blasting with straight sand  :tounge: Silicosis of the lungs is no laughing matter!

Being in the Navy for 18 1/2 years and being around Shipyards for a lot of it, I've seen how the pros and "not-so-pros" do it. Watching guys running blasting rigs 24/7 stripping the hull of a 453 foot Frigate is pretty inspiring! I learned a lot in the yards about equipment, procedures and safety as well.

Agree that stripping to bare metal is a must to find and repair all rust issues and eliminate all old finish that can lift at a later date.... I have a blast cabinet in the shop that I use for the smaller pieces of whatever I'm working on, but go to a commercial lot to do outside blasting on larger pieces like the cabinet and doors... the local place here charges $85  an hour to use one of their 8 blasting stations, they provide the helmet with outside air, gloves, all the media you need and even earplugs... and their compressor is the size of a garden shed, so air supply is not an issue... as BrianB says, safety when blasting is extremely important, and a local oustide blasting place is a good alternative for larger pieces, particularly if you live in suburbia and can't generate the dust and mess associated with outside blasting in your yard....

Chris

Josh,
All my restoration work is media blasted to bare metal. As previously mentioned you never know what is under the paint. A good example-I just finished touching up a machine that was painted by another restorer that had rust coming out through the top coat. Taking it to bare metal will also expose any cancered metal that needs to be replaced. As for paint I use PPG omni gold and Nason base coats. I have also experimented with Sherwinn Williams and was quite pleased. I am currently using a Top of the line Dupont clear. The "clear" I bought from my paint supplier really cheap because on 01-01-10 the paint was going to be outlawed to sell in California. The clear was going for 400 bucks a gallon and I bought his last three gallons for 100 bucks each. Over the years I invested in my resto shop by selling a machine and rolling the profits into new equipt. I am set up to sandblast, media blast, Paint booth, several paints guns, mig welder, etc. Its nice not to have to rely on someone else's work schedule and quality. T

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your information. I personally have always used aircraft striper to remove paint. It's cheap and easy especially on flat surfaces. I am chemically stripping a 1931 model A right now and its only taken 4 days to strip the entire car including door jams. here is a pic from yesterday before I got to the jams and other parts. I am looking forward to building some machines very soon.

Josh

I've used both base coat clear coat and acrylic enamels paints. I still prefer the enamels, they are a little harder to work with some times but they are easier to repair and they seem to hold up better than the base coat clear coat in my opinion.

Both are a good way to go.

for paint & rust removal right down to the bare metal, I used to have RediStrip in Flint alkaline/dip my machines ( before they were forced to move to Indiana by local eco-geeks even thought they are EPA certified) the electrolytic-alkaline process removes all traces of paint & rust even in the seams were you cant see it. average dip cost ( pre-disassembled by me) was between $200-275) for a machine the size of a V90 vendo.


heres a link to the Indy plant...http://www.redistripindy.com/ (http://www.redistripindy.com/)