New member here, help me identify this machine

I picked up a vending machine at a yard sale this past Saturday.  Was still in working condition, had the owners manual and all keys, and seemed to be in good shape overall.  I'm currently finishing my walk-out basement into a game-room/home-theatre, so I thought it might be a good fit to put down there.  I managed to get the price from $75 down to $55 and came home with my new prize.  

However...

I can't seem to find what manufacturer made this particular unit.  Manufacturer information is conspicuously absent from the owners manual I was provided, only a "model # FB-5" is listed.  A web search yielded some information (including this very informative board), but nothing based on the model number I have.  I went through the entire manufacturer listing here on this site and couldn't find a FB-5 anywhere.

Then, I figured I'd just search around on ebay, and managed to find this:



http://cgi.ebay.com/SNACK-S....iewItem

This is *exactly* my machine (even the decals), except I don't have the snack addition on top, or the changer on the side.

That ebay auction turned up this website though:

http://www.vendcraftvending.com/vendcraft01_003.htm

Vendcraft lists my machine (though with different decals) as an "FB-5" and lists themselves (and "Dundas") as the manufacturer.  However, I can't find anything beyond that on their website.  At least I have a source for replacement parts.

Now, the good news...

I don't think I *need* any replacement parts!  Everything seems to be working okay (the machine is cooling VERY well) and all 5 of the coin-ops are now set up as "free-vend" due to some creative work with plastic-cutting on my part (I didn't have enough of the little white plastic plugs for all 5 of the slots).  Well, 4 of the slots are free-vend...beer is going to cost a dime to prevent any underage access (*really* underage access I mean...I have a 6mo old).  '>

The only problem is that the machine is a little louder than I would like.  Maybe cleaning the condensing unit would help in that regard...the manual says it needs to be cleaned "MONTHLY" with spray cleaner "available at most appliance stores."

Anyway...with all that said...is there any information I should know about this machine?  Suggestions?  What kind of cleaner is the manual referring to?

Thanks in advance for all the discussion and suggestions...

[dr galaga]

Interesting machine.  Is that a debit or dollar bill unit on the right?

Doc - Thanks for the reply.  That's a bill changer, I think.  At any rate, it's an add-on that my actual machine doesn't have (I stole that pic from an ebay auction).

I'll try to remember to snap some photos of my machine tonight and put them in this thread.

[zadd]

What tha f@!* is that? Just kidding '>

[loman4ec]

I bought a bunch of those a while back. Mine was made by siaga (I think that is how it was spelled). I bought 3 complete sets for $50 and sold them for over $300 on ebay so you got a great deal. They are neet little can vendors. You should redo the decals to what ever you are going to use it for. A local vinyl shop will make the decals for a good price. It would look good in Budweiser or something like that.

[Kevin C]

Hello

Put that machine down & move away. Sell it as fast as you can!

Then buy a "Classic Soda Machine"

Maybe we could help you with repair options.

Kevin

Okay guys, so much for not needing any repairs...

I went down to check on it last night, slid it out away from the wall to look at the back and noticed *water* puddling underneath and on top of my hardwood floors.  Yikes.  

I'm figuring it's condensation, but it shouldn't be doing this, right?  My manual doesn't address extra condensation, but could this be a fan issue?  Is it not getting proper ventilation to evaporate this extra water?

I went ahead and unplugged it and mopped up the puddled water.  If I can't get this fixed, I'll have to move it to my workshop or put a laundry tub underneath.

Suggestions?

Anyway, thanks for the posts above, the customized decals idea is a really good one, I'll look into that for sure.  

Here's some pics I snapped last night too.





Weird warranty sticker on the back:

[bubba]

There should be a condensate pan in the bottom of the machine with a piece of tubing sticking into it. Maybe it shifted during transit and the drain is no longer in the pan.

I would definately look into some decals or lettering... Need something to spice it up

[Kevin C]

Hello

Prior to anymore comments.


RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or get rid of the SC Gamecock sticker


Kevin   out

Thanks for the reply, bubba.

Is the condensate pan as big as the whole bottom of the machine?  If so, I think it must be missing altogether because there isn't anything underneath.  It's just sitting on the 4 sides of the frame (as you can see, I have cardboard "feet" at each corner to keep it from marring my hardwood flooring until I figure out a permanent cushion to put undneath).

I'm assuming it's safe to turn over completely on its side?  I'll need to do that to look underneath for the condensate pan you mentioned.

Anyone know what kind of "spray cleaner" the manual refers to?

P.S.  Some of the comments above make me think I may have posted this to the wrong forum.  Is this area for "classic soda machines" only?  I assumed, wrongly perhaps, that "post-60's machines" would include everything up to newer models like mine (I have a 1998 date in my manual that I'm going by).

P.P.S.  Loman - I looked up the name you mentioned and you were close.  It's actually "seaga," but I'm not sure if that's the manufacturer or not.  By their website below, I don't see a model *exactly* like mine, but they are close.  Maybe it's the same and mine is just a discontinued model.

http://www.seagamfg.com/

Quote (Kevin C @ April 25 2006,10:56)

Hello Prior to anymore comments. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Away!!!!!!!!!!!!! or get rid of the SC Gamecock sticker Kevin   out

Heh heh - So that's the source of your above comment then.   '>

It's not a sticker actually, but a magnet that I placed there to "hold down" the area of the sticker underneath that was peeling off.

Don't worry though, I have plans for many more Gamecock magnets to go elsewhere on this machine.

I may even have the decal shop mentioned above incorporate a USC theme on my custom decals/magnets too.  

[bubba]

I'm not sure what the condensate pan may look like for that machine. Do not turn the machine over, and then attempt to plug it back in, unless you want to buy a new refrigeration compressor. If you look at the area where the cooling coil is, there should be a hole in the bottom of the tray. On the other side of that hole there should be a hose of some sort. This hose needs to go into some kind of pail or tray. The size depends on how much room you have. If its a small pan, you may need to keep an eye on it for a few days. Once the machine stabilizes, you should not have too much condensate. I've never had to drain the pan in any of my machines, and the pans are small.

You posted this machine in the most appropriate section here. Its just not a normal machine that we are used to seeing here. With a few big USC stickers and maybe a flag, that machine should be fine '>

Quote (bubba @ April 25 2006,1:02)

I'm not sure what the condensate pan may look like for that machine. Do not turn the machine over, and then attempt to plug it back in, unless you want to buy a new refrigeration compressor. If you look at the area where the cooling coil is, there should be a hole in the bottom of the tray. On the other side of that hole there should be a hose of some sort. This hose needs to go into some kind of pail or tray. The size depends on how much room you have. If its a small pan, you may need to keep an eye on it for a few days. Once the machine stabilizes, you should not have too much condensate. I've never had to drain the pan in any of my machines, and the pans are small. You posted this machine in the most appropriate section here. Its just not a normal machine that we are used to seeing here. With a few big USC stickers and maybe a flag, that machine should be fine '>

Oops, we may have a problem then.  When I was transporting it home from the yard sale, I had to lay it flat on it's back to fit into my wife's SUV (I didn't think that would be a problem).

Was that likely to do some harm? (I wouldn't think so, since it was cooling very well until I unplugged it)

What's the best way to check the condensate pan without leaning it over then...just take off the back plate and look in that way?

Here's another pic of a strange little message on the back, right above the removable plate:



If you can't make it out, it says: "No Warranty Authorization Approved Unless Purchase Order Number is given by The Factory."

I guess that keeps everyone but the original buyer from getting repairs under warranty.

And thanks for clearing up the question regarding the right forum and all.  Once I add my custom USC decoration stickers/magnets, I'll consider that my refinishing job and repost the pic here.   '>

[bubba]

I'm sorry... I didn't finish my thought ... Its ok to lay the unit down, but a general rule to follow is for every hour it is laying down, atleast that amount of time is required standing back up before it gets plugged in.

I'm not really sure how to access your compressor area. Never seen that type of machine before...

[zadd]

What tha @#$% is that thing? '>  

Zadd - I don't know if you're being serious or not...

...but that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

Anyway, my condensation problem continues....

I moved it from the hardwood location last night in hopes that I could pinpoint exactly where it's leaking from.  Removed the rear panel and this is what I see:



I can see the drip tube that bubba talked about above, and it looks like it's going into a pan, but the pan appears to have a lot of rust in it:



I can't look in there to see if there is a hole in the pan or not, without removing some of the machinery, which I don't think is a good idea.  I also can't figure out a way to get to whereever the tube is coming *from* to see if it's disconnected there.  The machine is sealed up tight everywhere else.  Ideas?

I moved the machine into my workshop and left it running overnight.  It cooled down the interior nicely (from 60+ degrees down to 38 as of this morning), but the water is pooling at each of the corners still.  I'm at a loss.  '>

[MoonDawg]

By the looks of your drain pan, it has not contained any water for some time. And you say you find water in 4 corners.............. where, inside the cabinet?   If so, the drain hose may be blocked and the water is then leaking through the seams of your inner liner.
      Even if that is the problem, that is still a lot of water in a short amount of time. Tray may not evaporate it fast enough.
       By the way, the water tray is always removable. Look to see what is holding it down. It won't do any good if it's got a hole in it.

Thanks for the post, MoonDawg.

My bad, I wasn't clear when I said "pooling at the 4 corners."  What I meant to say is that the water is pooling at the *exterior* four corners.  I have the corners sitting on 4 pieces of cardboard (originally so as not to mar the hardwood floor, but now that it's on concrete, I don't want to scratch the bottom of the unit itself)...and the water is soaking into those 4 cardboard "footers."

That pic above was taken this morning, and as you can see there is no water in there at all.  I thought maybe the tubing was blocked, but I couldn't get it to move anyway with a screwdriver, so I don't know how I could unblock it.

Perhaps I could access where the tubing originates by opening the front door of the machine (where I would load the cans)?  Is that normal for these machines (for the cooling unit to be housed with the cans/drinks)?

P.S.  The water tray in this case would be hard to remove.  As you can see from the pic, the fan motor assembly is sitting right on top of it.  I'd have to disassemble all of the motors/thermostat/etc just to get to it.

[BryanH]

Sounds like your liner bottom isn't level so the condensation is pooling in the corners and not running down the drain.  Try pouring a little water directly into the drain - if it comes out in the pan below you know that's not the problem.  Then pour a little water down the sides of the inside liner.  See if the water sits and pools or runs to the drain.  

You should also check the seal on the door.  To get pools of water for a single nights run seems like an awful lot of condensation.  A bad seal on the cooling compartment would mean you may have warm room air sneaking into the unit continuously.  Dry the insides of the machine then turn it on.  Check it every hour or so.  If you have a bad seal you should see condensation forming around the area where the seal is bad.

Good tip, Bryan.  Appreciate the post.

I actually think I *do* have a bad seal, and it's around the area where those cans are displayed at the top.  I get condensation on the 2 right-most displays.  Sounds like I need to reseal those in particular.

Also appreciate the advice on the drain. Should I be able to access the drain on the inside of the door, behind the serpentine-can-deliver trays?  Maybe I have to remove something in order to get to the drain area.

[zadd]

You could take the drain tube and run it to a different drip pan( bowl, cake pan etc.) to see if the collect condensation. It looks like this thing is close to a small refrig unit and the condensation collects in the bottom pan and then is evaporated. Vintage machines have a small removable pan. Just my 2 cents '>

Okay, guys...I figured out the problem.

Opening the locked front door of the machine reveals a little grate at the bottom (right above the can-catcher) where I can see the cooling unit, with a pan underneath.  Unfortunately, removing the 2 screws that are installed doesn't allow access to the unit.  Here's a pic:



Since I can't get to it from the front, I figured you *have* to be able to get to it from the back.  Looking at the plate I removed the previous day, I saw that it covered a section of insulation that looked like it was installed and sealed in with just silicone caulk.  I took my utility knife, cut through the silicone seal and was able to pry out this piece of installation.  This pic is below:



The inside of the machine was a mess.  What looks like rust, and all sorts of other debris (even a piece of "popcorn" styrofoam) were inside.  Here's 2 other pics:





See that black refrigerant tube?  It was *soaking* wet.  That's problem number 1.  That's obviously not insulated well enough, and I'll have to re-wrap it.  But, there's no way that could be the source of *all* the water, I thought.

So, I started looking at the drip pan.  This drip pan is apparently the "primary" drip pan, with the one I linked in pictures above as the backup/secondary one.  So I figured I'd make sure that the tubing running from the primary to the secondary was not blocked.  I filled up the primary pan with water, and it flowed right into the second one.  No problem there.

Then I figured I'd wait awhile and see if the primary pan had a leak.  Sure enough, I started noticing water pooling around the inside of the cooling unit *outside* of the drip pan.  Not good.

Looking at the drip pan (trying to remove it didn't work) I couldn't immediately see any holes (there was so much rust in it that it was hard to tell), until I started lifiting it up and down...then I spotted it.

Remember this pic?



See where the pieces of the grating have been removed?  That's corresponds exactly to where the hole in the pan is.

The mystery is whether the grating was removed to get to the hole, or the grating was removed to *create* the hole.  Perhaps the primary pan was overfilling and the previous owner put a hole in it to drain the excess.  Sounds dumb, but he may have had it in a location where he didn't care about a little extra water (like a garage).

These pans aren't *supposed* to rust, right?  Even though there's a lot of rust in the pan, I just figured that was mineral deposits from the water and not the pan itself.

Whatever the case, I need to fix the hole.  Since the pan is not easily removed, what if I cleaned out all the rust and debris from the area really well and then siliconed the heck out of the hole in the pan?

Not a permanent solution, I know, but once the machine "settles down" it shouldn't produce *that* much condensation anyway, right?  I'm thinking the silicone might do the trick.

Otherwise, where can I find a replacement pan for this?  Is this something I could modify from another machine?

Would really appreciate some advice on this from the experts here.  Thanks!

[loman4ec]

I think I would use fiberglass. You need to clean it as best as possible and then you could glass the whole bottom of the pan preventing any future holes.

Thanks for the tip, loman.  I'm assuming I can get thin sheets of fiberglass at Lowes/Hd?

I'd need to remove the pan, right?  Otherwise, I'm not sure I could adequately caulk all 4 sides where it sits now.

[loman4ec]

Yes you can get the fiber glass from lowes or home depot. I don't see why it would need to come out. Just cut the sheet to size and poor the resin on it and spred it around. It couldn't be easier but first lets see what the other members think about this idea.

So just put the silicone on it beforehand and then slide it into the pan?  That does sound easy actually.

[bubba]

The fiberglass that Loman is talking about is a fiberglass cloth that you mix epoxy and coat the fiberglass cloth. It will harden to an ultra hard substance that will not rot and be very hard to break.

Okay, so mix the stuff up and then slide it into the pan and let it harden?

Will the guys at Lowes/HD know what I'm talking about, or is this better suited for some place with better customer support (like Ace Hardware for instance.)

[zadd]

I would pull the pan an have a new one fabricated . The fiberglass trick is just a bandaid . If your going to keep this thing do it right and have a new pan made.If not you might as well clean it up and smear the silicon over the hole just as easy if not easier than the fiber glass mat and resin. You can go to a metal shop and have one made up for probably around 20$. '>

Thanks for the advice, Zadd.  I actually know a metal worker that can probably make me a new pan for even less than $20.

I'll go that route as a permanent fix.

For now, though I wanted to test that the hole in the pan was the cause of my troubles, so I cleaned out the area really well, globbed it with silicone, and then pressed down a piece of square plastic on top so I could ensure it was sealed (the silicone was sticking to my fingers otherwise).

Let that dry really well and then turned on the machine.  2 days later, the water is confined to the pan.  That's good.

The only other thing that I find odd is I can't quite decide on a thermostat setting.  Previously it was running too cold (running all the time probably contributed to all the condensate), so I lowered the thermostat some.

Using a remote thermometer, I've noticed a lot of fluctuation in the internal temp.  I didn't want my drinks below freezing, so I turned the thermostat until it stopped running when the internal temp got down to 31.8 degrees.  But then, the cooler didn't turn back on again until the temp rose to 41 degrees.  It's maintained this cycle (cool down to about 32, then warm back up to 42 before starting over) ever since.  Is a 10 degree fluctuation normal?

[dr galaga]

You should fill the machine up before you start worrying about cycling.  Plus, you will not get as much condenstation.

That makes sense.  The more airspace that is filled (with cans), the less moisture inside and more constant the temperature.  Thanks for the advice.

[dr galaga]

Also, the cans will help hold the temperature inside.  Kind of like how you should fill any empty spaces in your freezer with water jugs. '>

Yeah, that's what I meant with my poorly worded statement above...

Any ideas what kind of amperage this unit will be pulling?  I'm wondering if I'm going to see a spike in my electric bill next month.  '>

[dr galaga]

I wouldn't call it a spike.  It would be the same as running another fridge.  Besides keeping my machine full, I also installed a switch for the main light.  This way I only turn the light on when I have people over.

Mine doesn't have a light feature so I don't have that option.  '>

Any ideas on what the manual refers to as "spray cleaner" for cleaning the filter?  It says to buy the "spray cleaner" at "small appliance" stores.  Doesn't elaborate beyond that.

[dr galaga]

I don't know.  I know that there is a spary for furnace filters to help filter mold, pollen and pet dander better.  I've never heard about using it for something like a vending machine.

I'm beginning to think it's just compressed air, like the ones used to clean computer equipment (keyboards and such).  Maybe it's used to blow the dust off the filter?

Maybe this from a hardware store?
I saw this on the shelf and took a pic of it with my cell phone camera, for future reference.

Thanks, Markito!

I'll see if I can find that stuff.

[Kevin C]

Hello

Sorry for jumping in late.

I just remove the refrigerations system, spray the coils with some type of cleaner, let it sit for a few minutes & then use the water hose from the house to spray out the lint, dirt & crap.  I try to back spray the opposite direction of the airflow. Then let the unit dry, paint the coils & reinstall.  

Of all the machines that I have owned only one had a freon leak. Most are just very dirty & have electrical & fan issues.

Kevin

Thanks for the reply Kevin...

What exactly does "paint the coils" mean?  Applying some kind of adhesive?

[zadd]

I'll take this one kevin, Make them look new with  a shot of spray paint (Black).:p

Ah well, I'm not sure what to do with this machine.

After running for 5-6 days after I patched the whole in the drip pan, last night it started leaking again.

I vaccumed out the drip pan, and tilted it on it's side to check underneath and about 6 oz of water came out on the tile floor.  The water is coming out of the front, between the insulation and the outer metal shell.  The area around the drip pan was dry as a bone though.  I have no idea where all this water is coming from.  '>

[zadd]

Trash it and buy a real vintage coke machine.  '>

Thanks for the advice, zadd!  You've been a great help.

As to the machine, I'm going to wait and see if an altogether new drain pain will fix the problem.  It's possible there's water leaking from the silicone, or that there's another hole I'm missing elsewhere.

[Bill Templeton]

Quote (MrSigS @ April 24 2006,2:48)

I picked up a vending machine at a yard sale this past Saturday.  Was still in working condition, had the owners manual and all keys, and seemed to be in good shape overall.  I'm currently finishing my walk-out basement into a game-room/home-theatre, so I thought it might be a good fit to put down there.  I managed to get the price from $75 down to $55 and came home with my new prize.   However... I can't seem to find what manufacturer made this particular unit.  Manufacturer information is conspicuously absent from the owners manual I was provided, only a "model # FB-5" is listed.  A web search yielded some information (including this very informative board), but nothing based on the model number I have.  I went through the entire manufacturer listing here on this site and couldn't find a FB-5 anywhere. Then, I figured I'd just search around on ebay, and managed to find this: http://cgi.ebay.com/SNACK-S....iewItem This is *exactly* my machine (even the decals), except I don't have the snack addition on top, or the changer on the side. That ebay auction turned up this website though: http://www.vendcraftvending.com/vendcraft01_003.htm Vendcraft lists my machine (though with different decals) as an "FB-5" and lists themselves (and "Dundas") as the manufacturer.  However, I can't find anything beyond that on their website.  At least I have a source for replacement parts. Now, the good news... I don't think I *need* any replacement parts!  Everything seems to be working okay (the machine is cooling VERY well) and all 5 of the coin-ops are now set up as "free-vend" due to some creative work with plastic-cutting on my part (I didn't have enough of the little white plastic plugs for all 5 of the slots).  Well, 4 of the slots are free-vend...beer is going to cost a dime to prevent any underage access (*really* underage access I mean...I have a 6mo old).  '> The only problem is that the machine is a little louder than I would like.  Maybe cleaning the condensing unit would help in that regard...the manual says it needs to be cleaned "MONTHLY" with spray cleaner "available at most appliance stores." Anyway...with all that said...is there any information I should know about this machine?  Suggestions?  What kind of cleaner is the manual referring to? Thanks in advance for all the discussion and suggestions...

There are two types of coil cleaners, acid based and non-acid based. Most are now available at hardware stores. Years ago you had to go to a speailty serviceman's counter to find them. The acid base is typically pink in color and is a very strong cleaner, however, be careful as it may cause some epoxy coated coils to peel and flake, not to mention it eats galvanized coatings. Moreover, make sure you use the pink cleaner carefully, outside, or with plenty of ventilation. I like to dilute it 50/50 with water before spraying it. The non-acid based cleaner is typically green in color and is less affective at cleaning really dirty coils.