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Soda Machines, Coolers & Dispensers => Post 60's Machines & Coolers => Topic started by: Tomahawk27 on June 28, 2012, 03:02:30 pm



Title: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on June 28, 2012, 03:02:30 pm
Hey all, first time posting.

A few weeks ago, I bought a Westinghouse WC-102MD, as well as a service manual online. The seller didn't have a whole lot of information on the machine, even if it would vend, but for the price and relatively "decent" condition it was in, I figured it was worth the risk. As soon as I plugged it in, the compressor kicked on and after an hour or two, it seemed as though the machine was getting cooler inside (I haven't let it run continuously yet so I may need to look into this later).

This is where I need your guys' wealth of knowledge/experience/resources/contacts lol. The machine was wired to free vend (the coin mechanism was long gone) but there was more electrical tape than wiring it seemed. A few fixed connections later, I tired to get it to vend but unfortunately, nothing. Referencing the manual, I took out the vend motor, plugged it in to an extension cord and only got it to hum, the shaft would barely budge. The "solution" given in the manual was to simply replace the motor... not so easy 50 years later.

I was wondering if any of you guys have an extra motor that you would be willing to sell and if not, any sites online that could help me with this problem?

Sorry for the long post and if this has already been discussed elsewhere. Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: tkaz on June 28, 2012, 03:28:56 pm
Check out my post on disassembling the motor: http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,14794.0.html

You should try to pull apart the motor from the gear box and see if the motor at least turns.  Then you can clean out the gears and get them working, they could be gunked up.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on June 29, 2012, 04:23:52 pm
Alright, thanks for the step by step, I'll have to give that a try soon and see if I have any luck. I'll be sure to post regardless if it works or not


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: mznb1u on June 29, 2012, 04:33:12 pm
Welcome aboard.  Good luck with the Westy rebuild.  I have never messed with one of those but several on here have.

Remember  :needphotos:

 :drinking: Tim :drinking:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on June 29, 2012, 07:38:09 pm
Lol, I plan on taking some pics next time I get the chance. Hopefully tomorrow or Sunday


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: davin72 on July 10, 2012, 04:06:51 pm
 I will stand in line if needed but I have a feeling I may also need one of these motors if anyone has one. My machine got jammed and I didnt know it till about four days later and im affraid it may have burned up the motor. Please let me know if you have one but please get with the OP first. I dont want to step on any toes.

Davin


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on July 10, 2012, 10:26:21 pm
Sorry to hear that Davin. I've searched the internet pretty thoroughly but haven't been able to find anything. Funtronics said they have also been searching for a motor for our models but haven't had much luck either.

I haven't given up hope just yet but I think my best option right now is to try and get access to the gears. Don't know what it is just yet but I'm really hoping they are just seized up and need cleaned off/lubed up. If that doesn't work, I really don't know what to do. Krovel and I have been sharing information and he was going to check out Grainger's supply to see if anything worked.

That being said, if you, or anyone else, has one or comes across one they are willing to sell, please let me know


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: davin72 on July 11, 2012, 08:48:49 am
  Ive looked around alot myself and havent had any luck either. Im in Austin and there is a guy in San Antonio that has been trying to sell a beat up WC-102MD for a long time now. Im thinking about offering him a little money for it and getting the motor out of that one. As it stands he is only wanting $150 for the whole machine but if Im lucky he will take alot less just to finally get rid of it. Just not sure what Id do with the rest of the machine tho. As it stands I dont know what else to do.

Davin


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on July 11, 2012, 09:05:25 am
       Parts machines.....that's what keeps these old machines going, just like old cars.
Go get the 102, steal the vend motor, compressor and any other parts that may be useful.
       To dispose of the rest, place an ad on Craigslist for free metal for recycle. Someone will pick it up the same day.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: davin72 on July 11, 2012, 09:25:11 am
Thats probably what I will do. Maybe I can get it cheap enough and then try to sell all the other stuff to at least break even. Not looking to make any money off of it so If anyone is looking for some parts off of one of these machines then let me know and Ill go pick it up.

Davin


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on August 09, 2012, 10:31:47 pm
Well I finally got around to the motor tonight (who would have thought the summer would be more hectic than the school year?) and unfortunately the motor seems dead. I was able to separate the motor from the gear housing and the gear shaft spun without too much resistance, meaning that it was not just gunked up as I was hoping. The motor hums when plugged in and still creates a magnetic field but won't spin the shaft.

I still haven't been able to find a motor that could be used as a replacement and no one is selling a Westinghouse anywhere close to me. At this point, I'm just trying to think of ways that could still activate the gates and still deposit bottles without requiring a motor.

That being said, I am still very interested in buying a motor if someone has a spare. If so, just let me know


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on September 30, 2012, 11:11:03 pm
Well I've finally gotten around to start the main restoration of the machine these past few weekends (it helps having an uncle that works for a union that has a spray booth, all the tools, materials, etc.) and everything seems to be going smoothly. So far, I've:

Scuffed and sprayed the inside rails and vend chute to help combat the existing rust, as well as prevent it in the future. Once they dry, they will be sprayed silver to help dress them up a little bit.

Cleaned the inside of the machine, mainly the compressor cabinet on the bottom.

Power washed, bleached, and scrubbed the outside. Once all this was done, I sand blasted any rust areas that I could not have gotten with the hand sander. Put body filler over the areas that were scratched, dented, gouged, or in any way damaged. Primed the areas that have been worked on. Scuffed the entire outside in preparation for the primer coat.

Installed an aluminum sheet over the inside cabinet door that had been broken away by the previous owner(s). Fixed some of the gasket in the process. Sprayed the sheet matte black to help match the door.

That's about as far as I've made it in the time I've been able to work on it. If you guys see anything that should be done in addition to the things I've listed, please don't hesitate to post them. Might as well do everything right the first time around.

Before I conclude this excessively long post, I wanted to ask a question that some of you guys might know. Inside the compressor cabinet, it was lined with old insulation that was falling apart and just overall grody. I pulled all that out and was just going to replace it but I was wondering why that area would have insulation anyway? I can understand insulating the top of it to keep the drinks above cool but wouldn't the insulation keep that area warm, as the compressor would heat up? If so, wouldn't the idea be to keep the compressor as cool as possible and not overheat? I'm sure there is a good reason for this but if anyone can help me here, it would be appreciated


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on September 30, 2012, 11:23:22 pm
     Was it for soundproofing?


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Fire708 on October 01, 2012, 10:39:49 am
If you can't find a replacement motor you can have it rewound, or actually do it your self. Google rewinding a motor. My dad taught us how to wind motors when I was a kid and it's actually pretty easy. You just have to make sure the number of turns in the wire is the same. Brushes can be filed down to fit if you can't find direct replacements.

There are many places that do it, just not sure what the cost would be or even if it's worth it.

http://www.wikihow.com/Rewind-an-Electric-Motor

Has anyone tried using a modern motor with a fabricated mount to replace the old motor? I don't have a machine that uses this type of motor (yet) but motors are pretty simple machines and come in all shapes and sizes.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 01, 2012, 12:46:27 pm
     Was it for soundproofing?

Hmm, I never thought of that possibility, I would think that would make the most sense. Like I said, I trust the engineers at Westinghouse and Coke to make a good machine so they probably had good reason to install it, just wanted to see if it was worth replacing


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 01, 2012, 12:51:05 pm
If you can't find a replacement motor you can have it rewound, or actually do it your self. Google rewinding a motor. My dad thought us how to wind motors when I was a kid and it's actually pretty easy. You just have to make sure the number of turns in the wire is the same. Brushes can be filed down to fit if you can't find direct replacements.

There are many places that do it, just not sure what the cost would be or even if it's worth it.

http://www.wikihow.com/Rewind-an-Electric-Motor

Has anyone tried using a modern motor with a fabricated mount to replace the old motor? I don't have a machine that uses this type of motor (yet) but motors are pretty simple machines and come in all shapes and sizes.


I might have to try that in my spare time. It works now but ideally I would like to have it vend via the motor, just seems more complete and original that way. If you say it's not difficult, it's worth a shot, especially since I have nothing to lose.

From what I've heard and researched myself, none of the restoration sites sell motors that match this amp and rotation type. I might be under a false assumption but I'd have to think all the sites have been looking themselves for anything they could make work. The lady at Funtronics said she/they have been looking and haven't had any luck


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 01, 2012, 05:49:26 pm
This type of motor is a brush-less design, (AC induction) & beware the left-handed threads that secure the gear-housing to the motors frame, as it's very easy to snap the heads right off of the little buggers.

Merkle-korff industries is the OEM ans still manufactures motors of this design, but you'd need to do some research speed, rotation, mounting bosses, etc.

http://www.merkle-korff.com/ (http://www.merkle-korff.com/)

I've attempted to contact them in the past, (two years ago) but they can't be bothered by small-fry's apparently, perhaps they will respond.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 01, 2012, 07:18:31 pm
This type of motor is a brush-less design, (AC induction) & beware the left-handed threads that secure the gear-housing to the motors frame, as it's very easy to snap the heads right off of the little buggers.

Merkle-korff industries is the OEM ans still manufactures motors of this design, but you'd need to do some research speed, rotation, mounting bosses, etc.

http://www.merkle-korff.com/ (http://www.merkle-korff.com/)

I've attempted to contact them in the past, (two years ago) but they can't be bothered by small-fry's apparently, perhaps they will respond.

Funny you mention the threads, they all snapped off when I was trying to separate the two.

I went to Merkle's website and it said pretty much what you are saying, don't bother contacting them. I also believe it said that any questions regarding one of their motors found in a machine, should be directed to the manufacturer of the machine. Basically, don't bother us


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 01, 2012, 08:18:16 pm
Yep they're left handed, clockwise to loosen & counter-clockwise to tighten
(bizarro-world threads IE: from 1960's Germany)  :upside:

lesson learned here folks!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on October 03, 2012, 10:50:17 pm
I used to think that it would be pretty simple to find a replacement motor for Westinghouse machines.  BUT NOPE!!!  I've been to grainger a few times even met some helpful people, called many companies and got no where.  

It's a shame too, because I really like the Westinghouse machines.  Hard to think that we have machines going all the way to mars, but no one can make a motor to fit into the Westinghouse machines.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: globalcompressors on October 04, 2012, 12:08:38 pm
research vend motor for a Rowe cigarette machine....


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on October 05, 2012, 09:38:07 pm
ok i looked up those motors for rowe cigarette machine, but I guess i am to new to understand.  I didn't find any references to the rpm's, or any specifics for the motor.

Do you think these would be a suitable replacement for a westinghouse motor??



Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: tkaz on October 05, 2012, 09:53:28 pm
I would think you'd need a torque measurement on top of the RPM's, as the Westinghouse vend assembly is a heavy unit that needs some muscle to get it to vend properly.  The Rowe unit looks close, but I'd think that vending cigarette packs wouldn't need nearly the same amount of torque.

One of these days I'll get around to experimenting with another one of these.  Based on torque specs and speed, I think that an automotive wiper motor would have the same characteristics, and could be a good fit.  I may try to pick a few up at a junkyard and see what I can get working.  Some of the early Chevrolet wiper motors have resistors installed to make them dual speed motors, replacing that with a custom resistor may be a good way to adjust to the vending needs, of course they are all 12VDC, so you'd have to have some form of an AC/DC converter as well.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on October 05, 2012, 10:37:50 pm
I have found two different motors for the Westy.
The one on the left came out of my WB-60 and it is the sealed type. When my machine jammed, it stripped the gears internally - no way to open it!
The one on the right is from a WB-102 and it can be opened up, lubed/repaired. You have to drill a hole a little higher on the linkage for it to work, but it has been working fine over a year now. Even if it breaks, it can be repaired. This is the motor to get. Both are mfg. by Merkle-Korff.
The gear ratio is 172:1 & 19 RPM on the left one and is model SG25. The one on the right just has "Model NF" on it. I assume it has comparable specifics.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on October 06, 2012, 06:35:08 am
If I can get the shaft size, mounting dimensions and rotation I can check with my part suppliers. I work on a lot of different conveyor ovens that use motors that look a lot like the ones pictured so I can take a stab at it and see if something is compatible. I see a E clip on the end of the shaft, does it have a flat space on the shaft?


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on October 06, 2012, 08:06:34 am
      I have only come close to ever owning one of these machines, that was a few months ago but Tom talked me out of it.  :biggrin:

      Looking at his picture of the location of the motor, it appears to have extra space above it. Now excuse me if this has already been covered, but have all efforts to find a replacement been concentrated on only a "drop in" gearmotor? I mean, if the same torque and rotation were found, could the mounting hardware and linkage be modified to fit?

      The reason I am asking, is my cataloge from Vendors Exchange shows a picture of a "Transport motor" replacement # VE 1125 for the Rowe soda machine $85.00.
(website does not have pics).
The motor is offset from the gearbox so fit is a big concern, but it was made for inside the cold compartment and with enough power to vend in those large machines.
They also show one with a much shorter profile #VE 5168 that I'm sure would fit the space ,but is priced at $212.00.


     In any event, somebody is going to replace one of these drive motors some day, and that person is probably going to be someone from SMC  :drinking:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 06, 2012, 08:11:13 am
If I can get the shaft size, mounting dimensions and rotation I can check with my part suppliers. I work on a lot of different conveyor ovens that use motors that look a lot like the ones pictured so I can take a stab at it and see if something is compatible. I see a E clip on the end of the shaft, does it have a flat space on the shaft?


In regards to the shaft, They are just round & drilled with an roll-pin to secure the cam to the shaft. ( no flat)


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on October 06, 2012, 08:12:56 pm
I have found two different motors for the Westy.
The one on the left came out of my WB-60 and it is the sealed type. When my machine jammed, it stripped the gears internally - no way to open it!
The one on the right is from a WB-102 and it can be opened up, lubed/repaired. You have to drill a hole a little higher on the linkage for it to work, but it has been working fine over a year now. Even if it breaks, it can be repaired. This is the motor to get. Both are mfg. by Merkle-Korff.
The gear ratio is 172:1 & 19 RPM on the left one and is model SG25. The one on the right just has "Model NF" on it. I assume it has comparable specifics.

I have found the exact same thing. The motor I have is closed. I am sure it would cost, but could someone cut it open and have it rebuilt?? Or is this to hard, not plausible??  I am ready to experiment!! I have a cutter and have no idea what i am doing so things might work out!!

I am very new to this but am very willing to help out if  can.  If someone needs measurements or something please just give me some helpful instructions and I will send measurements, pics or just really good vibes.  please let me know what I can do.

guess I sound a bit desperate sorry. I am just bout done with my 1st machine a wb-102 and this is the thing I am missing.  So, it would be nice to have something.

kevin


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 09, 2012, 11:02:55 am
      I have only come close to ever owning one of these machines, that was a few months ago but Tom talked me out of it.  :biggrin:

      Looking at his picture of the location of the motor, it appears to have extra space above it. Now excuse me if this has already been covered, but have all efforts to find a replacement been concentrated on only a "drop in" gearmotor? I mean, if the same torque and rotation were found, could the mounting hardware and linkage be modified to fit?

      The reason I am asking, is my cataloge from Vendors Exchange shows a picture of a "Transport motor" replacement # VE 1125 for the Rowe soda machine $85.00.
(website does not have pics).
The motor is offset from the gearbox so fit is a big concern, but it was made for inside the cold compartment and with enough power to vend in those large machines.
They also show one with a much shorter profile #VE 5168 that I'm sure would fit the space ,but is priced at $212.00.


     In any event, somebody is going to replace one of these drive motors some day, and that person is probably going to be someone from SMC  :drinking:

I hope you don't mean me or else I'm going to feel pretty bad lol.

You would think with how many people have restored these machines, and probably encountered the same motor problems, someone would have made/modified a replacement by now. Any way, my motor is the sealed type (same as most I believe) so like you guys have said, the only possible way to try and fix it, would be to cut open the housing I believe and even then, no guarantees


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on October 09, 2012, 11:42:27 am
...the only possible way to try and fix it, would be to cut open the housing I believe and even then, no guarantees
I have a stripped (sealed) motor I could send you to experiment with if you want. PM me your address if interested.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Fire708 on October 09, 2012, 11:54:46 am
I have found the exact same thing. The motor I have is closed. I am sure it would cost, but could someone cut it open and have it rebuilt?? Or is this to hard, not plausible??  I am ready to experiment!! I have a cutter and have no idea what i am doing so things might work out!!

Sealed motor would be very difficult to open for rewind without trashing the casing.  The positive side is that if you try the motor can't get any worse. It still won't work.  

If its making a humming sound the windings may be fine and the bearings may just need oil, they could be frozen.  Will the shaft turn if you try to force it? Maybe use vice grips to get a good purchase and leverage.  I've fixed a couple of house fans by oiling the bearings and turning the motto shaft manually until it turns freely.

If you do open it be very careful to not cut or detach any windings. Other than that you can't make it any worse!

So, go for it!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on October 09, 2012, 01:48:17 pm
That is what I thought - take mine, open it up and then you will have a better idea of where to cut and such so as not to further damge the insides.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 09, 2012, 03:48:36 pm
I have a stripped (sealed) motor I could send you to experiment with if you want. PM me your address if interested.

Will the shaft turn for you? If it won't, then cutting it open would probably be the best, and maybe only, option left for you. Mine however, will turn unfortunately, meaning there is something wrong with the motor itself.

If your shaft won't turn, I'd be willing to give it a shot for you. Probably just cut the housing open with a grinder or Dremel, see what the insides look like, and then just weld it back up after I'm done. 


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on October 09, 2012, 04:46:48 pm
I don't need it. It broke on me a little while back and I had to put my spare motor in the machine. If I remember correctly, the shaft spins by hand, the motor runs but does not rotate the shaft. I believe the internal gears are stripped.
So if you would like one to experiment with, let me know and I'll ship it out to you.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on October 09, 2012, 05:27:01 pm
If anyone has more info on these motors I found a Merkle-korff distributor that I'll call tomorrow. Maybe they'll be willing to help.



Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 09, 2012, 07:25:58 pm
If anyone has more info on these motors I found a Merkle-korff distributor that I'll call tomorrow. Maybe they'll be willing to help.



I hope so & yeah good luck with that...I found them rude & unhelpful myself personally. I hope you have better luck...  :glare:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on October 09, 2012, 07:47:09 pm
If anyone has more info on these motors I found a Merkle-korff distributor that I'll call tomorrow. Maybe they'll be willing to help.


I have called them also with not much luck.  They are a bit rude since i wont order 10,000 units.

That said what info do you need.  I am more than willing to help if I can.  Good luck with the distributor, if they ask for a headcount put me down for one, as long as the price isnt out of this world.

Kevin


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on October 09, 2012, 07:56:26 pm
Sealed motor would be very difficult to open for rewind without trashing the casing.  The positive side is that if you try the motor can't get any worse. It still won't work.  

If its making a humming sound the windings may be fine and the bearings may just need oil, they could be frozen.  Will the shaft turn if you try to force it? Maybe use vice grips to get a good purchase and leverage.  I've fixed a couple of house fans by oiling the bearings and turning the motto shaft manually until it turns freely.

If you do open it be very careful to not cut or detach any windings. Other than that you can't make it any worse!

So, go for it!

When i put power to it, it was pretty much paperweight material.  I cant turn the shaft which i think is a good sign (not being stripped) and once i get the rest of the machine complete I am going to concentrate on the motor. 

And ur so right. if I mess it up will it not work more. 


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on October 14, 2012, 08:54:14 am
Has anyone tried using the vend motor from Funtronics #11K ? I just got one for my V-144 and the old motor was a Merkle Korff 20 RPM 168 to 1 Ratio and CCW rotation and has a keyed shaft. The new motor is CCW rotation and 18 RPM and has a flat on the shaft. The motor for the Westies is 178 to 1 ratio 19 RPM and CCW rotation and has the hole in the shaft for the roll pin. I had an old gearmotor laying around and the shaft is drillable. The shaft length and diameter are the same, so this motor might be an option.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 20, 2012, 11:44:02 pm
Got everything primed today. It's amazing how even one coat of primer can dress up a machine. Really into the home stretch now


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 24, 2012, 01:02:55 pm
Machine just got painted by someone my uncle knows. Apparently he has restored a few himself and it looks really good. Can't wait to see it this Friday


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 24, 2012, 03:11:42 pm
don't forget to post pictures!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 24, 2012, 06:40:49 pm
don't forget to post pictures!

Oh believe me, I will. I'll probably just wait until everything is done though, simpler that way


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 28, 2012, 09:37:34 pm
Worked on the machine again today and saw it for the first time after being sprayed. It's not a "professional" job but compared to what it used to look like, I couldn't  be happier. You can finally see yourself in the reflection and with the new white as well... wow.

Replaced the power cord (could there be any more wires in that little compartment on the compressor!?), reinstalled the bottle opener, coin return, and lock, prepared the silk screen to reapply the appropriate names above, had to mess with the adjustable arm/rod on the inside of the door to hit all selections, and installed a new drain pipe.

My uncle found lights that would fit inside the provided sockets and with us both being interested to see what they looked like, as well as see if our new cord was installed properly, decided to plug it in. I was told to "watch for any sparks near the compressor" and was relieved when it kicked right on and was humming like new. However, when the lights didn't turn on and he lifted the drink selector to fiddle them around, one of the wires arched and flames started shooting up the side, and I mean flames. Luckily he was aware enough to unplug it after a second or two and the whole thing didn't go up. We were also lucky that the damage was very minimal and most of it was just smoke damage. Funny now but scary then!

Even after that fiasco, I'm thinking it should be done either this upcoming weekend or next


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: johnieG on October 28, 2012, 11:08:50 pm
you probably arced a ballast, which is why the light didn't work in the first place, very common, take notes folks...thoroughly go over the entire machines wiring top to bottom especially were it enters any electrical device or connection/junction block, etc. these puppies are 40+ years old & wires get brittle & fray...safety first.

I'd gut the lightup ballasts & harness & use an off the shelf florescent under-counter light to back-light the marquee, it's cheaper than replacing the ballasts & starters just slice it into the lightup signs feed socket.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on October 29, 2012, 12:04:33 am
you probably arced a ballast, which is why the light didn't work in the first place, very common, take notes folks...thoroughly go over the entire machines wiring top to bottom especially were it enters any electrical device or connection/junction block, etc. these puppies are 40+ years old & wires get brittle & fray...safety first.

I'd gut the lightup ballasts & harness & use an off the shelf florescent under-counter light to back-light the marquee, it's cheaper than replacing the ballasts & starters just slice it into the lightup signs feed socket.

This wasn't the marquee actually, it was the "sold out" and "exact change only" lights. Regardless, like you said, it was enough to do another pass over to see if there were any visible exposed wires


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 02, 2012, 11:31:06 pm
Just about finished it today. Sprayed the delivery chute and back of the door panel black to dress them up and cover the imperfections. Put a few more screws around the inside liner to reduce the waviness and replaced some of the older tape with new black duct tape. Had the whole thing buffed and a new light socket put in. Going to finish the shaft vend (replacement for vend motor) either tomorrow or Sunday


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 06, 2012, 12:01:14 am
Well, officially done. Finished up the last of it yesterday and couldn't be happier.

Finally got the lights to work, although it wasn't through the "original means." Somewhere along the endless feet of wiring there was a problem, so, despite the sockets having power, they weren't getting the signal to come on. Rather than spend hours trying to trace the problem, just figured it was easier to rig them to their own power cable which comes out at the top of the machine and runs down the back. It is admittedly less than desirable seeing another cord but having them on all the time adds to the look and helps to ensure no more fires!

Got the crank assembly finished as well. Could have been done a while ago but it was just easier to wait until it was refinished. All that was left to do was cut the rod to length, thread it, and attach the knob. Good to go.

Should be moving it in over Thanksgiving break at which point, pictures will soon be up.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Fire708 on November 06, 2012, 10:20:14 pm
I missed something. Did you get the motor working or did you fabricate something for replacement?


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 07, 2012, 12:30:35 am
I missed something. Did you get the motor working or did you fabricate something for replacement?

No, no luck on the motor unfortunately. I fabricated something to make it vend by turning a knob. Honestly, it was a pretty simple solution, just need the right tools


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Fire708 on November 07, 2012, 02:35:17 am
No, no luck on the motor unfortunately. I fabricated something to make it vend by turning a knob. Honestly, it was a pretty simple solution, just need the right tools

Ahhhh,
Nice thinking!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 21, 2012, 01:18:38 pm
Well, got it moved in last night (pictures soon) and it went relatively well considering its a 400lb machine. My roommates let it run overnight and unfortunately, woke to found that it hadn't cooled... at all. Looks like I might be heading back over tonight and hopefully, fingers crossed, find that it's a "relatively easy" fix but I have my doubts. I'm just hoping that I don't have to replace the whole unit.

If it does need replaced though, at least we have a very nice looking, 400lb, decorative piece!

Tom


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on November 21, 2012, 01:36:40 pm
If you can't get it running let me know.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 21, 2012, 11:15:36 pm
Well, if I did this right, there should be two pictures of the finished machine. The lighting isn't too great but I think you can kind of get a feel for what it looks like. As with most finished machines it seems, I'd like some estimates on what the new value would be.

The inside wasn't refurbished (maybe someday) but just not enough money right now lol.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 21, 2012, 11:21:41 pm
Now for the crank vend I have been talking about. As you can see, it's pretty simple and with this, you can bypass the broken vend motor issue


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 21, 2012, 11:43:42 pm
Not the easiest angle to see from but essentially, it's a few easy steps (pardon my lack of incorrect terminology):

You will have to purchase a steel rod, flat piece of steel, a knob, and hitch pins, although a bent nail works also

1) Remove the vend motor but keep the boomerang looking piece
2) Drill a hole through the side of the machine the same diameter as the steel rod
3) Cut the rod to length (8" maybe? I can't remember)
4) Thread the outside end of the rod to whatever diameter your knob opening is
5) Drill a hope (a drill press is recommended) through the circular opening on the boomerang
6) Drill another hole, the same diameter, through the rod
7) Align the two holes and insert a hitch pin or bend a nail
8) Cut the flat steel to length and drill a hole on both ends to match the size of the nubs on the boomerang and upper vend mechanism
9) Attach the steel piece to the nubs
10) Attach hitch pins to the provided grooves 
11) Attach a hitch pin over the rod right against the inner cabinet, this will prevent it from shifting left
12) Attach you knob

You're done!

* The flat piece of steel will most likely need to be grinded down. You can see the middle of mine is cut back and the bottom corners were rounded off as well. This part is really trial and error until it no longer hits the door.

And there you have it, a way to still use the machine without a vend motor. If someone follows these steps and notices that I didn't include a step or something doesn't work, please let me know and I will edit the steps


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 21, 2012, 11:49:58 pm
And to complete my massive picture upload, the refrigeration system. After letting it run overnight (with no fires), my roommate said the compressor would kick on for 5-10 minutes and then shut off for another 5-10, over and over. I know this is very vague but if anyone had similar problems or sees a glaring problem in my pictures, please post any and all advice you may have


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 28, 2012, 12:29:08 am
Well, the refrigeration system is now working, thanks to the guidance of Ken (kbareit). He told me what areas to look at and sure enough, the evaporator fan was hitting the fins and wasn't spinning. After a few gentle bends to the bottom of the fan blades, it started right up and after an hour or so, that cabinet was cold! Pretty pumped right now


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on November 28, 2012, 09:19:07 am
      That's great to hear, fixed on the telephone. Good call Ken.

      You may experience more of a humming noise comming from that fan now. Once the blades have been bent they never seem to be balanced quite right again. Replacements are very inexpensive though.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on November 28, 2012, 09:26:55 am
There is a vend motor on eBay right now. The guy wants an arm and a leg for it ($120) in unknown condition. C'mon man - plug the darn thing in and see if it rotates. He has a bunch of machines too, but all of them seem to be priced with TV goggles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coca-Cola-Machine-Vend-Motor-Coke-Part-Parts-/200854659138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec3dee042


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 28, 2012, 01:27:01 pm
      That's great to hear, fixed on the telephone. Good call Ken.

      You may experience more of a humming noise comming from that fan now. Once the blades have been bent they never seem to be balanced quite right again. Replacements are very inexpensive though.

While it was running last night, the noise didn't seem to be too bad, although it could probably be quieter. I may keep my eye out for a replacement and make a few stops. Like I said though, the noise wasn't overbearing or anything 


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on November 28, 2012, 01:30:05 pm
There is a vend motor on eBay right now. The guy wants an arm and a leg for it ($120) in unknown condition. C'mon man - plug the darn thing in and see if it rotates. He has a bunch of machines too, but all of them seem to be priced with TV goggles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coca-Cola-Machine-Vend-Motor-Coke-Part-Parts-/200854659138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec3dee042

He literally has it out of the machine and the wires still on it. All he would have to do would be still the ends in a socket and find out if it works. I would hate to see how much the price would go up from people (probably posters here lol) bidding against one another if he were to confirm it is working


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on December 01, 2012, 01:13:47 pm
Just asked the guy on eBay if he would test the motor to see if it worked. He said no, and that if he did and knew it worked he would ask 150 for the motor.
I guess everyone needs to profit a bit but man, lets not be to greedy in the process.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 01, 2012, 04:50:29 pm
Just asked the guy on eBay if he would test the motor to see if it worked. He said no, and that if he did and knew it worked he would ask 150 for the motor.
I guess everyone needs to profit a bit but man, lets not be to greedy in the process.

My question is, if he knows how valuable the motor is, why not test it and if it works, charge the extra $150?

I have a feeling he has tested it, found out it didn't work but, will leave it's condition "as is" or "chance it might"


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on December 02, 2012, 12:19:47 am
He'll never get $150 for it or even $75 - even if he says it works!
Why?
You can find these machines complete for $100-$150 - part it out and get the motor for free.
The last motor I saw on eBay sat without a $10 bid until the end and someone got it for $10 - that was about a year ago.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Jim on December 02, 2012, 09:28:24 am
I had contacted him, the seller, as well only to verify what has been posted!
I agree w/ Tom, a little over-priced and unreasonable; not to mention, he's a member...


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 02, 2012, 11:14:32 am
I had contacted him, the seller, as well only to verify what has been posted!
I agree w/ Tom, a little over-priced and unreasonable; not to mention, he's a member...

Not even offering a member's discount, that makes it even worse


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on December 02, 2012, 11:54:14 am
An attempt to exploit supply and demand? Just picked up 2 78's both motors DOA. Just gives me ambition to find a replacement that will work.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on December 02, 2012, 01:02:31 pm
      Speaking of members, I think this may be just the task for our resident Scalebowler. Converting that Tonka truck to move under it's own power makes this gearmotor problem look like kids stuff.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 02, 2012, 09:47:00 pm
It might be time to contact him and let him have a go at it. Can't say I've ever talked with him but if he's as good as you say he is, go for it, we need all the help we can get. Been close to 50 years or so and not one motor has been an adequate replacement


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on December 03, 2012, 10:02:47 am
      Moving off this motor for a minute to share something I've never forgotten.

      An employer I once had, told me that if he could have his choice of workers to groom into his technicians, they would be the boys that come in fresh off the farm.

      I thought about this for a while, then just had to ask why?

      He said those guys are so far from a city that when a part breaks they usually figure out a way to fix it or they'll make a new one.  :happydrinkers:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 03, 2012, 01:22:32 pm
      Moving off this motor for a minute to share something I've never forgotten.

      An employer I once had, told me that if he could have his choice of workers to groom into his technicians, they would be the boys that come in fresh off the farm.

      I thought about this for a while, then just had to ask why?

      He said those guys are so far from a city that when a part breaks they usually figure out a way to fix it or they'll make a new one.  :happydrinkers:

My dad actually told me something similar to that. Something along the lines of, when their big industrial blades would need replaced, instead of buying new ones, they would simply add beads of weld to the edges, grind them down until they were sharp and there you have it, a new blade 


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: tkaz on December 06, 2012, 03:55:17 pm
How about a motor like this one, off a cigarette vending machine...high torque, low RPM...could be worth a shot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/merkle-korff-4520UP-170-high-torque-low-speed-motor-cigarette-vending-machine-/190764229248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6a6f2280


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 06, 2012, 04:51:06 pm
It certainly look similar to the vend motor that came out of the machine and it is a Merkle as well. I believe the vend motor was at 19 rpm and this one is listed somewhere around 20-30, not sure if that is close enough or not. Someone with more knowledge of motors would have to take a close look at it, I don't know enough about them.

The sad thing is, if it would work, someone would probably snatch it up before they told me lol  :laugh:. Can I call dibs on the second one available?


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on December 06, 2012, 05:09:48 pm
      The guy has 2 and he wants $50.00 each including shipping.
Might be a good idea to own one of them.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: scalebowler on December 10, 2012, 02:39:09 am
This is really a tough one. I did find some specs on a surplus parts website (they want 75 dollars for one of those) for what looks like (I'm not 100% sure it's the same one though) that motor from the cigarette machine.

Quote
Merkle-Korff Gear Co. gear motor. 115 vac, 18 rpm, 60 cycle. CCW rotation. 3-3/4" overall diameter body x 4-3/4". 3/8"D x 0.418"L shaft. Four mounting holes, 2-3/8"

Really been thinking this one through. Is your motor the one in the picture a few posts above with the tape measure next to it?





Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on December 10, 2012, 11:01:15 am
      No, I copied a picture from the e-bay listing of the motor that got no bids because the seller wouldn't plug it in.
     I figured the angle of the pic and his ruler would help to research a substitute.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 14, 2012, 11:03:24 pm
How long should the compressor run after plugging in the machine? The cabinet is cold, I just don't know how many hours is normal.

Tom


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: collecture on December 14, 2012, 11:31:24 pm
Most all of my machines will cool from 100 degrees down to 35 degrees in about an hour. After that, they cycle about every 15-20 minutes. Cycling on 2-3 times per hour is considered normal.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 14, 2012, 11:43:32 pm
Most all of my machines will cool from 100 degrees down to 35 degrees in about an hour. After that, they cycle about every 15-20 minutes. Cycling on 2-3 times per hour is considered normal.

Well not exactly the answer I was hoping for lol. My roomate said it's been running for the past 2 hours or so without any break. Looks like more work tomorrow of trial and error


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: globalcompressors on December 15, 2012, 01:38:17 am
if it's loaded with "product" it can take up to several hours...


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Blind1968 on December 15, 2012, 02:47:18 am
You might invest in a cheap thermometer. I picked up a digital monitor for ten bucks for mine. That way you can verify how effective the unit is cooling.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Tomahawk27 on December 15, 2012, 10:39:00 pm
I Wasn't able to look at it today, but it occurred to me that my roommate may have just heard the evaporator and condenser fans running instead of the compressor. I'll Try and give it a look tomorrow.  


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on December 16, 2012, 12:51:29 pm
Solved the vend motor issue. Took lots of trial and error and fabrication but came up with a replacement. The cam assembly had to be fabricated to secure it to the shaft. and the mounting plate had to be redrilled to mount the new motor. I installed it and let it cycle repeatedly without any problems and then loaded it cans to be sure it would handle the load, no problems. I have some pics attached to show the assembly. If anyone is interested in getting an assembly PM me and we'll go from there.
Thanks, Ken


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: MoonDawg on December 16, 2012, 03:17:12 pm
      Thank you for posting Ken.
 
       Yahoo, I knew you one of you guys could do it! :happydrinkers:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Slider-Bob on December 16, 2012, 03:22:01 pm
Nice job Ken. Way to go!!!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: scalebowler on December 16, 2012, 06:51:32 pm
Looks awesome!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: kbareit on December 16, 2012, 07:10:34 pm
It was a challenge, I trashed a few motors in the process but am happy with the end result. I have to thank Collecture for sending a cam to get me started until I could find a machine.(I have 3 now and 2 waiting in Michigan). I also have to thank the Mrs. for getting me a great deal on a multi function welder, I couldn't put this together without it. Let the Westies vend.


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: mznb1u on December 16, 2012, 08:24:45 pm
Maybe not as pretty as the factory but you have come up with a solution to an old problem!  Nice work! :happydrinkers:

 :drinking: Tim :drinking:


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: krovel on December 17, 2012, 08:43:12 pm
may the westy live long and prosperous!!!!


Title: Re: Westinghouse Vend Motor
Post by: Creighton on December 17, 2012, 10:32:59 pm
Excellent!!
Thanks for taking the time.
Creighton