Reproduction large Door Mechs

[loman4ec]

I have something for everyone to think about. I am working on starting to manufacture reproduction parts here in Asia. I have been thinking about what parts are needed most in the industry that are not available. The part most in demand I think is the large door coin mech. There is a reproduction however the price is $375 each. I think I can make a functional coin mech for much less than this. The drawback is it will not look original. It would be easiest to make the mech work with existing arcade slug rejectors. I know nothing about slug rejectors and they are complex so making them would not make sense. Original rejectors are scarce and expensive. I am not sure what denomination arcade slug rejectors are made in. Obviously the most common in 25 cents but does anyone know if 5 cent or 10 cent rejectors are common and plentiful?

I want to do this because I have observed a need for this part more than any other part for any machine. How many machines have we all walked away from because it is missing the large door coin mech. I am not wanting to make a product for the purest or for fully restored machines. Just something to make the machines that are missing their mech functional again.

Has anyone used the reproduction Home Arcade coin mech? Does anyone have pictures of one?

Everyone please think about this and let me know what you think. Any suggestions are more than welcome. This will be quite challenging but I think it can be done.


Another thing is do you think there is a market for a dummy mech. Something that would hold the crank handle and shaft with a ratcheting mechanism that would and eliminate the need for a complex coin mech making it just run freeplay. This would be very simple.

Please everyone let me know your thoughts.

[collecture]

I think if you were to model it after the Small door Large Door mech, it would be easiest for you.
I had a LD mech sent to me a while back that used a regular ol' jukebox rejector and a lot of the functions were taken out, but it worked just like the SD mech in that once coins were inserted you could not get them back (no coin return). It basically had the coin chutes, ratchet, nickel/dime dog, coin block and shaft and that was it, which is similar to the SD mech.
I don't think the quarter mech would fly as well as a nickel or dime - part of the fun and nostalgia with the old machines is getting your soda for five or ten cents.
You also have shaft lengths and pin holes to consider. The VMC-44 mech shafts is longer than the rest and the linkage pin was on the diagonal. I believe the V-44 shaft length is different from the VMC-44, but I have not been able to confirm this. The 81 and 56 are the same. The Westinghouse mechs had a larger hole (3/16" I think) drilled on the vertical, but is the same length as the 56/81. The Jacobs 56 had a real short turned down shaft as did some of the Sure Vends.

I don't have that hard of a time finding mechs - I have won two LD change-giver mechs (VMC-44 and Westy) off eBay in the last two weeks for just over $300 total. I now have probably 7-8 extra LD mechs and about the same number of extra SD mechs.
I am thinking of offering a LD mech on eBay and the winning bidder can choose what type he wants. I have the Jacobs, Sure Vend, VMC-44, 56/81 shafts to model from. I hope to get the V-44 shafts specifics so I can offer it too.

[coke_and_stuff]

As Tom said Large Door mechs arent that hard to come by, Ive had 4-5 this year alone, and im not even trying to get them.

Hey Tom are 56 81 110 shaft lengths the same?? I noticed you didnt mention 110.

Something that Ive had alot of calls about lately is large door coin entry bezels. Not VMC just regular Vendo. I believe small door 81 110 would be a big hit as well.

I myself would be interersted in the mechanical bottle stack parts, that are all located around the Vend Cam, and front plates of V81 bottle stacks.

Joey

[collecture]

You're right Joey - I did not mention the 110, but it also the same as the 56/81.

Isn't SJW reproducing the cast bezels now?

[MoonDawg]

      Tom had a great idea Josh. You could produce the shell which is the same
size as the large mech, but the small mech mounts inside of it. With the abundance
of 39's being parted out, that complete mech and slug rejector is easy to find and
is original equipment for many large door machines.
      Sorry I don't have one to send you as a prototype, but glad you are using your
situation to maximize your capabilities. This will work! 

[collecture]

      Tom had a great idea Josh. You could produce the shell which is the same
size as the large mech, but the small mech mounts inside of it. With the abundance
of 39's being parted out, that complete mech and slug rejector is easy to find and
is original equipment for many large door machines.
      Sorry I don't have one to send you as a prototype, but glad you are using your
situation maximize your capabilities. This will work! 

The shaft is much longer to accomodate the extra space between the "shell" and the back of the small door mech (like 2" or so).

[loman4ec]

I like this idea. Adding shaft length is easy. Some metal rod and a welder and its done. This would be the easiest solution and it is simple.I could easily repop the bracket.

Any other suggestions or ideas? Joey the bezel would be nice but it required a cast. Anything cast the manufacturer will want quantity so high that it is ridiculous. That is China. For sheet metal parts I have a company locally that we have partnered with that can make just about anything.

[MoonDawg]

I like this idea. Adding shaft length is easy. Some metal rod and a welder and its done.

    Since you will be selling just the shell and won't have access to the customer's mech.
could you maybe include an extension shaft with a coupling?

[loman4ec]

That would be easy Glen. Also I would like to take a stab at making small door mechs as well. Does anyone have a rusty mech without a rejector that I could buy? I need something to go by. The small door mech is simple and with some slight rerouting of the coin path could be made to use HAPP slug rejectors. I think this is the way to go and there is really nothing too complex about it. I don't know if there are 5 cent rejectors available. It may have to be 10 cent (dimes only) but that would be better than quarters. If I made mechs I would need to find out the the length of the shaft and location of pin holes for all applications. I would make the shaft the length of the longest application with predrilled pin holes for all applications and have the shafts turned on a lathe just enough to have a notch to show where to cut for each machine. It would be easy to do and would make them user friendly.

After thinking about it the most difficult thing is adapting it to work with the HAPP slug rejectors as the coin path is on the other side. It is too bad there isn't an abundance of small door slug rejectors. Making the mech would be very very simple if we had the rejectors. Anyone have any suggestions?

[collecture]

Josh,
There are actually 5 parts you would need to have reproduced (see pic)
1. The main body or shell
2. The coin chute at the top
3. The coin return retaining bracket (attached to left side of mech)
4 & 5. the two piece chute assembly at the bottom

As far as the rejector - I can take virtually any NRI rejector like a V-83 nickel rejector and make it work on any soda machine mech. I wonder if the Happ could be modified as easily.

[collecture]

I just won this on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380076597627&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

You could use these mechs also and they could be set for 25 or 35 cent vend. I checked and a quarter will fit through the SD bezel.

[loman4ec]

OK with everyone's help I have switched gears and have decided to take a stab at small door coin mechs. This is because they can be adapted to be used on large door machines if I make the adapter plate so it gives me more range and more demand. I have several ideas. I already know that this will NOT look like an original mech. I am not trying to make a mech for restored machines. I simply want to make something available for those machines that do not have a coin mech.

What is everyone's opinion on this? Is there enough demand out there for this? I will need to make several hundred to make it cost effective and the initial financial cost for me is quite high so I cannot afford to make this and not have it sell. What do you all think?

[coke_and_stuff]

original small door mechs are actually very available, Keep an eye on ebay. the last 81 mech sold for $100.00, Slug Rejectors are out there. You making several 100 of them is a big leap.

just my 2 cents

Joey

[loman4ec]

So Joey in your opinion it would be better just to make the adapter plate to adapt small door mechs to large door machines? That would be easy.

[coke_and_stuff]

Ditto!

How about a V81 can stack, and V81 can stack shelves?

Joey

[collecture]

So Joey in your opinion it would be better just to make the adapter plate to adapt small door mechs to large door machines? That would be easy.

Josh,
I think the LD adapter plate would be your best mech part to fabricate; however, it could take you years to make your money back.
Let's say you make the mounting plate, the purchaser still has to acquire or own a SD mech to put in it. Let's say you charge $100 for your part - SD mechs can run up to $100 or so. All of a sudden, the purchaser has spent $200. He could acquire an original LD mech for not much more.

I just can't see that many people buying one.

I think Joey might have an idea though.
Think about can adapters for various machines. I have some for my WC-60 that I got out of a later model pushbutton WC-78. I looked into getting some made, but my quote here in the states was like $22 each for 50. Well nobody is going to spend $125 for the 6 columns. I'll post a pic of one later.

[davethebirdman]

Can Adaptors are deffo the way to go and I would start with a 39...
The most common machine so plenty of them out there... They often turn up with no drum at all so you are catering for that market too...

I know there are repro drums for the 39 but they are quite expensive and as far as I'm aware nobody is still doing a can conversion...

You might even want to think about the drum that allows choice for the v39..

Whatever you do you need to do it for the bigest market.. Not for the ardent collector...



Just my pennies worth... 

[Marvin]

I would buy a can adapter or can stack for an 81 in a minute.  It would make the machine so much less expensive to operate.

Marvin

[loman4ec]

Doing a adapter plate will be easy and something like that I can have done in small quantity. I honestly don't care if I make any money on this. I just miss the hobby and this is all that I can do from here. I also have a transition 56 missing a coin mech back home. So now you know why I want to make coin mechs

I completely agree with making a can conversion for machines. The only problem is there are so many parts to make and they are so complex. I can easily see something like that costing $500 or more each to manufacturer. I could take a stab at it and see. I would need a v56 or 63 can stack to use as a guide. Does anyone have one for sale? Than I would just need measurements for a V81 stack. the shelves would be easy but again it would be costly. Honestly would you buys buy a conversion for $400 to $500 each? Maybe it could be a modification for current shelves.


As for can adapters for a WC-60. I could do those easily. The only issue is shipping.

[loman4ec]

What do you think about free vend can stacks. Making them working complete can stacks would be very very difficult but making a free vend can stack would be easy and it could even look original. That would also allow the new stack to be able to vend anything. It would look just like the original but could vend anything. My idea would also allow the use of the original shelves and no modifications to the machine. Just unscrew the stack and put the original back in.  What do you think?

[bubba]

Josh... I have a few can stacks for sale... I'd donate one to the cause.. getting it to the other side of the world may be a challenge though... I'd love a stack that could do cans and bottles.. don't know if it would work well though...

[MoonDawg]

       A can stack for an 81 could possibly be acomplished by using the same principle
as the self serve 110. Customer would then only need to remove his faceplate and
install yours with the much larger openings so that fingers could retrieve the cans.

[loman4ec]

I was thinking about making a self serve stack with the same basic design face plate as the original with just slightly larger opening holes. Then in between the holes just slightly to the right of the opening have a pull knob similar to the stoner candy machines. When you pull the knob it pulls the can or bottle slightly out of the opening just enough to grip the can/bottle to pull it out. It would be simple but effective. There is only two problems, it would be free vend and it would loose one selection. There is no way you could engineer something like this with as little space as is available on the original stack.

What do you think. Is it worth it? The original shelves could be used so that saves some cost but it would still be around $300.

[bubba]

I think that would be pretty cool. I think it would be a sellable item.

[collecture]

Josh,
Sent some mech pics to you thru email - let me know if you got them.
If you are trying to make an affordable inexpensive mech, why even bother with a rejector? Just have a coin chute - your target market probably doesn't care if it is a valid coin. They just want to put a coin in and turn the crank.

Design a mech with the correct mounting holes and a shaft with a single coin slot. You could include a ratchet and a single dog and that is all you would need.

Art has never been my forte, but here is a rudimentary design in MS Paint.

[loman4ec]

Ok I have found a large door / Small door mech from a friend. It is on its way here. Hopefully we will have a reproduction soon. First I am going to do the mounting plate and then work on the mech.

[SIGNGUY]

JOSH,
Not to bust your bubble , but is the the large door Mech your thinking about making?? Soda Springs restoration out of illinois had this at their booth, not sure on price, but sure looked like the Large Door Mech for a machine???

[collecture]

It appears to be a coin chute type mech with no form of rejector.
Also looks like you have to use their cover plate with it - the original and 'true to form' repro (like the one offered by SJW) wouldn't fit - the mounting bolts for the cover plate are farther apart on the original LD mech.
Hard to say for sure.
Competition Josh none the less!

[loman4ec]

Soda Springs bought Home Arcade. That mech has been around for a long time. They look terrible and at $400 each its not much of a bargin. i want two things. A low cost solution and an original looking solution. The first thing I am making is the adapter plate for small door mechs. This is something they did from the factory. And then later I want to replicate a small door mech to look original.

Here is a pic of the Soda Springs mech. It uses a HAPP 10 cent rejector

[sodaman]

Right, Home Arcade gave me one of their prototypes before they went into production with them, if you needed just to insert a coin and push the handle of a large coin door machine then that mech would do it but I certainly wouldn't buy one, at least at the price they wanted.  They gave me that mech around 15 years ago. 

[collecture]

Yeah, I have not heard great things about that mech.
I didn't connect the mech to H.A.'s when I first saw it as I haven't seen pics of many and have never held one - on top of that I had never heard of Soda Springs before or that they bought H.A.
I see the rejector mounts in John's picture now that I have seen Josh's picture of a complete mech.

Josh,
You mentioned a shaft idea in email.
I guess your mechs will fit the big 3 manufacturers - Vendo, VMC & Westinghouse.
The LD Mech shaft on the Jacobs 56 (Pepsi Light up) and the Sure-Vend machines is much shorter and the end of the shaft is turned to a smaller diameter. Your idea wouldn't work for these machines.

[loman4ec]

Here is a pic of what I am starting with. This is the original mech that is being shipped to me. I am going to make the adapter first and send one back to the USA and make sure that it works. Venxt I am going to try to replicate the small door mech. I am going to make the mech without a rejector. The mech will be able to use an original rejector or it will come with a bypass chute. With the chute in place the mech will work on either a nickle or a dime.

As for the shaft. I have a project for everyone. I need to know the shaft length and pin hole location for all of the different machines. I plan on making the shaft the length of the longest application and have the shaft pre drilled with the pin holes for all machines. The shaft will also be scored and labeled where to cut for the different machines. That way with only a hack saw and 5 minutes the mech can be used on all of the major machines. It is unfortunate that the mech will not work on the Jacobs and selectivends but I am more worried about the other more popular and more plentiful models.

I also have a question. I am thinking about making a cheep free vend only mech that will not accept money. Possibly just have a cash box to collect inserted money. All I have to do is have the shaft and the mounting plate. It would be cheep and easy. Do you think a low cost alternative like this would sell?

[loman4ec]

Oops here is the mech

[sodaman]

I  made 2 Coin mechs for Vendo 56's several years ago made from an old metal coin mech bodies from  Cav. 72's and 2 small coin door mechs from 2 selectivends that were parts machines.  I also had to weld on a shaft extension and drill a hole in it but everything worked smoothly and I am sure they are still out there somewhere.  I think I still have the coin chute and bottom coin guide for the coin box I made for a third one that I never had the need to make.

[collecture]

Josh,
I just need to know the measurements of Vendo 44 shaft - distance from the bushing on the back of the mech...also how the pin hole is drilled on the back of the mech (ie. horizontal, diagonal or vertical. I believe the V-44 is different from the VMC-44 in length.
I have shafts to measure for the:
Westinghouse 42, 44, 96 (I'm 99% sure the 160T is the same)
Vendo 56, 81 and 110
VMC 44, 88, 81, 110 (I'm 99% sure the 144 is the same)
Jacobs 56
Sure Vend P-47
So get a V-44 measurement and I have the rest of them!

[loman4ec]

That is great news. Thanks for your help. I think the mech I am getting came out of a V-44 so we are set. My mech is missing one vital Part and I need another part to make sure everything will work. I have attached a picture with the two parts I need circled in red. If anyone has either of these two pieces that they are willing to donate for a short time I would greatly appreciate it.

[collecture]

Josh,
The top part you have circled is a standard LD coin chute already reproduced by both SJW and Fun-Tronics.
The bottom circle is just the coin chute on the mech

[loman4ec]

I have a reproduction coin chute at my moms house packed away in the attic but she cant find it. I can make the mech coin chute but I need the standard chute in order to know where to mount the missing mech chute. I will email Funtronics.

[collecture]

On the LD SD mech shell, two oval slots are cut out so the chute can be adjusted in or out to line up with both the rejector and the coin chute.
You should have these holes cut into the mech you are getting.

[SIGNGUY]

So get a V-44 measurement and I have the rest of them!


[/quote]

Tom,
I am sorry I havent' gotten you those measurments yet,, just got back from Deer hunting.. will try to get to it tonight..

John

[loman4ec]

I am starting to work on this coin mech. I have a few originals to work from and I am going to take a stab at it. I need everyones opinion. Would everyone want a 5 cent only or a 10 cent only coin mech?

[MoonDawg]

       Most of the 1950's machines are referred to only as "ten cent machines" by the general public.

[loman4ec]

Well I was playing around the past two days and this is where I am so far. I have the shaft cut and am working on the ratcheting mech. This is just the housing. I am making the first out of thin metal so it is easy to shape and easier to work with. At least the easy part is done. In the pics I put an original side by side with my project mech. Not too bad so far. It only took about two hours to get this far.