Newbie questions about Westinghouse Select-O-Matic

[Gnost]

I recently acquired a Westinghouse WC-78-MD Select-O-Matic in working condition.  I have two questions.  First, I cannot seem to find how to access the flourescent bulb located behind the "Drink Coca-Cola" glass window near the top of the machine.  Second, how do I change the vending amount from 65 cents to 15 cents.
Any help appreciated.

[sodamuseum.com]

I have the service manual for your machine.  PM me if interested and I will email you a copy.

[Gnost]

Thanks.  I purchased the service manual and the one I have doesn't address the questions I have (unless I'm missing something which is ENTIRELY  possible.

[tkaz]

There are two screws, most likely phillips head, that hold the bottom of the sign in, you can access them by looking under the selection panel with the coin door open.  They are tough to get to but the selection panel pulls forward some to allow access.  Then the sign pull out from the bottom first as there are two pegs in the top.

If you have a Coinco mech, here are the instructions on setting the price: http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,1138.0.html

If it's not a Coinco, then either post a photo or model # of the coin mechanism.

[Gnost]

Thanks, tkaz. I'll take a look and give your suggestions a try.

[Gnost]

Well, life gets in the way of having fun sometimes and this was one of those times.  Finally had a chance to attempt to change the fluorescent bulb in the Coca-Cola window and she's a no-go.  I removed every screw that was within striking distance of the window and it shows no signs of any movement.  I even removed the selection panel hoping that there were some hidden screws.  Hopefully the photos I tried to attach made it in.  Any help appreciated.

[ajf5577]

Do you get any movement at all with it? There could be another screw (s) but it could also be that the foam weather seal has hardened like an adhesive. I wish I had one of these to look at but someone on this board should be able to help.

[Gnost]

No, that thing is in there TIGHT.  I agree, I must be missing something because, as I said, I have removed every screw/bolt that's in the vicinity of the panel and it ain't movin' at all.  I'm hoping someone will chime in as it's almost Swear up a Storm/Tool Throwing Time!

[tkaz]

It looks like the machine was painted with the sign in place, there is red paint all over the seals.  Try slicing a razor blade along the vertical seals to see if you can loosen it up, I remember the sign in mine being very tight in the casing.

[cohammer]

get a service manual . step by step

[Gnost]

I have a service manual that I purchased when I got the machine but I just looked at it and on the cover it says, "Cooler Group lV".  It's 30 pages and there is no step by step guide to removing the panel.  Is there a more complete service manual available?

[ajf5577]

Someone earlier in this thread offered a manual to you. There should be a specific manual for this model.
The front signs are not that complex. I think that a little patience and the suggestions here may end up with success for you. Try gently prying at the bottom, once you try the razor blade around the edges. Be gentle though. IMO the sign is being held by the foam seal acting as an adhesive due to the age, and possibly paint around the edges as previously suggested. Perhaps a hair dryer blowing along the edge may soften things up.

[MoonDawg]

        I have never owned Westinghouse, but some machines have the screw also on the side or top of the frame. You must open the main door to access them though.

[Gnost]

Gentlemen, thank you so much.  I took a razor blade and gently went up and down both sides of the machine and, presto, the panel fell into my hands. 
Tkaz, excellent observation on your part.  You were exactly right; someone had painted the gasket when painting the machine and that's what held the panel in there.  Thanks again.

[ajf5577]

Congratulations! Now on to the next step.
Once you replace the light, did you figure out how to change the price?

[Gnost]

Tkaz was kind enough to give me the link to a website which shows how to change the pricing on the Coinco box.  It looks like it's self-explanatory.  I did remove the box to have a quick look but I did not see the buttons with which pricing is changed.  I assume they must be in the box itself.  Hopefully I'll have time within the next few days.  The machine also needs a good cleaning/vacuuming so I'll address that as well.  I'm really glad I found this forum; you folks have been great (and patient) with someone who's never been inside one of these things before.  Thanks again.

[ajf5577]

The little dip switches are located inside the coin changer. You can see them once you remove the rejector.

[Gnost]

I found the rejector after probing around a little.  Once I found the two tabs at the top of the coin box and removed the rejector the microswitch was right there.  I flipped the first two little rocker switches to get the 15 cent  price I was looking for.  Piece 'O cake.  Thanks again.

[tkaz]

Glad you were able to figure out both issues without problems!  I tend to poke a little too hard and end up with broken pieces, your patience is valuable!

[ajf5577]

I found the rejector after probing around a little.  Once I found the two tabs at the top of the coin box and removed the rejector the microswitch was right there.  I flipped the first two little rocker switches to get the 15 cent  price I was looking for.  Piece 'O cake.  Thanks again.

WTG! You're almost ready to run a service route....

[Gnost]

Well, my career as a service technician isn't off to a good start!  My machine is missing the starter for the fluorescent lamp and my manual does not show anything about that part of the machine.  I think that I finally correctly sent a private message to the gentleman who offered to provide me with a service manual so maybe his will be more complete.  In the mean time, does anyone have the part number for the correct starter for my Westinghouse WC-78-MD fluorescent lamp?
TIA

[MoonDawg]

          FS-2

[ajf5577]

Starters are easy to find at any hardware store. Probably have to buy a pack of two. Model of the starter should be FS-2. If your bulb looks dark at the ends, probably ought to buy a bulb. There may be a reason why the starter is missing.

[Gnost]

Thanks for the info. on the starters.  I recognized the starter number as being a popular one so I plucked an FS-2 out of another fluorescent light that works, plugged it into the Coke machine and...nothin'.  New bulb is installed that I purchased with some other soda machine parts.  The bulb is noticeably thinner than the one that was in there but the ends are the same.  I would assume my next step would be to use a DVM to ensure that I'm getting 120V to the bulb sockets?

[MoonDawg]

      Have you ruled out a bad ballast?

[Gnost]

No, I figured that if I was getting voltage to the socket the problem would be elsewhere but everything I read and watch says nothing about checking voltage to the socket.  Common theme is install known good bulb which I've done (it's brand new but I guess it could have been damaged in shipment).  Would you just go ahead and replace the ballast?  They're available and not too expensive.

[MoonDawg]

      A bad ballast will blow out a new bulb immediately, but you would have noticed a very bright flash.

[ajf5577]

Did you try the "new" bulb in anything else first? That would be my first step. You don't  see ballasts go bad on these very often, but it's possible. After ensuring the bulb is good. Check that your getting 110 to the ballast first. You may have a wire open some where.

[Gnost]

I didn't think I had a lamp with the same size fluorescent bulb but I found one so I'll try the bulb that is in the Coke machine in the other lamp.  FWIW, the "make another selection" lamp works.  I already ordered the ballast so maybe I'll have a spare.
 BTW, I finally put some bottles in the machine and it works BEAUTIFULLY!  It takes exact change, makes change and dispenses the soda perfectly (after I put the bottles in backwards on the first go around).
Off to watch the Super Bowl even though my Pats aren't in it.  Having said that, you folks will still help me, right?
Thanks again for all the assistance.

[ajf5577]

I didn't think I had a lamp with the same size fluorescent bulb but I found one so I'll try the bulb that is in the Coke machine in the other lamp.  FWIW, the "make another selection" lamp works.  I already ordered the ballast so maybe I'll have a spare.
 BTW, I finally put some bottles in the machine and it works BEAUTIFULLY!  It takes exact change, makes change and dispenses the soda perfectly (after I put the bottles in backwards on the first go around).
Off to watch the Super Bowl even though my Pats aren't in it.  Having said that, you folks will still help me, right?
Thanks again for all the assistance.

Well,...... That IS asking a lot, but there's no way to deflate a soda machine so you're probably safe with us  

[Gnost]

Back after a hiatus.  Andy, LMAO.  THAT was good! 
I just installed a known good bulb in the machine and it did not work.  I then removed the white lamp reflector to which the ballast is attached on the back side.  I'm guessing this is a newer ballast  (it's a Robertson SS2RC) because the two black wires coming out of the starter aren't connected to anything.  As previously suggested, I'll check to see if I am getting 110V to the ballast.

[Gnost]

Checked voltage going into the ballast and I have 113V.  Not exactly electrically inclined so I would appreciate some guidance as to what I should do next.
Thanks.

[Creighton]

Never had one of those machines but is there an on/off switch anywhere? May be the type you need to hold down for a couple of seconds.
Creighton

[ajf5577]

Never had one of those machines but is there an on/off switch anywhere? May be the type you need to hold down for a couple of seconds.
Creighton

The switch would be before the ballast, so if it's off, the ballast wouldn't be energized. Trace your wires off of the ballast and through the assembly to make sure that you have a complete circuit. Strange that the starter would be out of the loop. Does that model ballast work without a starter?

[Creighton]

Anyone care to post a schematic for this machine? I'm guessing wrong ballast. Starter out of the loop red flag. appears to have had a re-wire which can be difficult to sort without the diagram.
Thanks
Creighton

[collecture]

Here is a schematic

[ajf5577]

Here is a basic Flourescent light diagram. See if your configuration looks like it may have matched this.

[Gnost]

Thanks for the replies.  No, this particular machine does not have an on/off switch in the lighting circuit.  Looking at ajf5577's simplified schematic, it does not match the wiring on my machine as the two black wires that run from the starter are cut and go nowhere.  As I mentioned earlier, the ballast that's in there is a Robertson Model Number SS2RC.  It's pretty clear that the wiring has been messed with as there are butt connectors used to mate wires which, I'm guessing, would not have been used originally.  I'll post some pics within the next few days.  Thanks again.

[ajf5577]

The Robertson SS2RC magnetic fluorescent ballast operates (1) F14T8 lamp at 120 input volts and can be remote mounted from up to 10 feet. Ideal for use in normal light areas, this preheat start ballast is typically used in offices, board rooms, and retail. Also operates F12T8, F15T8, F16T8, F18T8, F19T8, F14T12, F15T12, and F20T12 fluorescent lamps.

I grabbed this from the specs. If your new ballast is rated for the bulb that you are using, you might ask the manufacturer ( or outlet where you bought it) if it is self starting.

[MoonDawg]

        When I get stuck like this, I abandon the factory lighting set-up and install one of these..........
http://www.lowes.com/pd_409777-44516-UC12WH_1z0y4gj__?productId=4136614&pl=1 

        In addition to the lighting, painting the inside of the cabinet white or using reflective material helps spread the light rays evenly.

[ajf5577]

        When I get stuck like this, I abandon the factory lighting set-up and install one of these..........
http://www.lowes.com/pd_409777-44516-UC12WH_1z0y4gj__?productId=4136614&pl=1 

        In addition to the lighting, painting the inside of the cabinet white or using reflective material helps spread the light rays evenly.

That is a far better idea. We've already spent more time talking about it than it would have taken to go to Lowes and pick that up 

[Gnost]

Just ordered one of the Lowes Lighting fixtures as suggested by MoonDawg.  Should have it by the end of next week.  Thanks for the tip.

[Gnost]

OK, so I got the new fluorescent lamp from Lowe's and if you recall, I mentioned that I am electrically challenged.  The lamp has three wires: black, white and yellow.  The Coke machine has two black wires, one of which is power.  How do those five wires get connected?
As always, thanks for the help.

[Jim]

I would suggest; black to black; white to black and cap the yellow wire.
Be sure you have power, 110/120 v or whatever it takes..., before connecting everything just in case there is another issue...

[ajf5577]

If there is a screw that's not being used n the vicinity you could attach the yellow to that. Unless your fixture is some strange three way, the yellow should be the ground. Refer to the paperwork that came with the fixture, and like Jim said, make sure that you have the proper voltage to the two black wires. Be sure to leave the old transformer out of this loop.

[Gnost]

Thanks, guys.  If you see a bunch of black smoke over a house in central Massachusetts you'll know things didn't go exactly to plan!

[steven c]

Yeah 220/221 what ever it takes, sorry I couldn't resist.