Machine with Bad Compressor

[Pixel]

I've got a lead on a machine that the seller claims looks pretty good on the outside, but the compressor is bad-grounded out. I don't have a picture of it at the moment.

It's not located right out my front door, but it's not 1,000 miles away either. I don't think I could afford an overhaul of the system already in it, but I'm thinking I might could find a working "beater" machine to swap another complete system into it.

When a compressor fails like this, do they often take fans and wiring or components for the lights and vending out with them? Is a machine with a bad compressor even worth attempting a swap like this?

[MoonDawg]

       Assuming this is the machine you have been looking for, yes go get it.
       The idea of a beater is right on track.
       I picked up 3 rusted out 56's this weekend for just that purpose.
       Pulling 3 working compressors, bottle stacks and complete sets of shelves then off to scrap they go.

[tkaz]

Agreed, I have purchased machines in the past and done the same, buy a >$100 machine, grab the compressor, shelves, bottle stack, and bezels if you're lucky to get them and call it an even deal.  If you're looking at a Cavalier machine, see if you can find a donor that has the light up sign, that can bring some money as well.

[Pixel]

I'm not certain it's what I'm looking for yet, stylistically. If it is and it looks okay I'll probably see if I the seller will talk turkey.

How hard would the swap be to do? Will I need an assistant?

[tkaz]

How hard would the swap be to do? Will I need an assistant?

Depends what she looks like!

[Pixel]

Depends what she looks like!

I'm thinking it's a Cavalier slant shelf that will vend cans or bottles- will that system take two people for a swap?

I find it amazing that most of the early Cav's have lighted signs, but nearly all of the later ones don't.

[tkaz]

I meant the 'assistant'!!!!   

Seriously though, they aren't too hard to pull out of the machines, weight-wise it's not a problem but keeping the top deck secure is the main concern.  It helps to have a second set of hands to pull the full unit out at once, but I have done it several times by myself.  If you're doing a quick transfer in a close vicinity, you can gently rest the evaporator unit ensuring you don't bend or pinch lines and transfer to the new machine.  If it's going to sit for a while, you should build a stand for it, very easy to do with some scrap 2x4's and plywood.  I used a plastic lawn chair side table to hold one of mine up, worked perfect for a transfer.

[Pixel]

I kind of thought you were talking about the assistant, but wasn't sure. I doubt I could find a pretty girl willing to help me with something like that.   

How does the compressor deck as a whole wire into the machine? You have a wiring harness to the evaporator fan, I know. Also, as best I can tell the compressor itself plugs into a junction block on the primary harness. What am I missing, wiring wise?

[tkaz]

If it's a Cavalier, then you have the main block on the lower right hand side of the upper unit to work with.  I'll see if I can find a photo, or grab one in the garage tomorrow.  The block has spade terminals, so you can pull out the ones you need to separate the thermostat and evap fan from the rest of the electrical (stack vending switches).  Just take photos and pay attention to what you are pulling off, but it should be only 4 black wires from that block.

[MoonDawg]

       Oh no, just 1 power wire from the compressor unit feeds that junction box.
       Un plug that, remove 2 bolts from the compressor base, 2 screws for the line cover and 4 screws holding down the evaporator.
       Even a first timer could do this in 10 minutes.................unless any of these fasteners have excessive rust. 

[MoonDawg]

 If it is and it looks okay I'll probably see if I the seller will talk turkey.

        Dude, this guy is trying to sell a machine that doesn't work! Who wants to buy it facing another bill of up to $800.00 to fix it?

        He could keep it, but what good is the machine to him if it doesn't work, and he doesn't want to fix it either?

        Well of course he's gonna' talk turkey. 

[Pixel]

Just to make sure I understand, any original cooling system from a woodgrain-era Cav slant shelf (CSS or USS) should interchange with any other woodgrain-era and later Cav slant shelf machine, as long as both are a combination of either 64 or 96 and not an unusual capacity, correct?

I hope I don't get in trouble for asking this, but I'm curious, will the earlier 64E/F system with the different evaporator work in the later machines?

[tkaz]

Yep, now you're in trouble, should have asked that! 

The earlier compressors may work, but the mounting holes in the liner would probably need to be made and the old ones patched.  Really the biggest thing you're looking at with these is to ensure which side of the door the compressor lines come up on.  Vendos were mostly to the left, Cavaliers to the right.

[Pixel]

I doubt I'd try an E/F system in a later machine. The E and F machines from what I can tell tend to be the most valuable in the CSS line, so given the choice I'd probably rather restore one of those than scavenge a cooling system for a later model from it. I just wondered if it might even be an option.

If I go check out the machine, would there be any sense in trying to use a multimeter on the compressor myself, or should I just assume it is indeed bad?

[tkaz]

Go wild.  Most of the cords on these are just extension cords, there's a plug pretty close to the compressor.  Bring your own cord and a breaker strip and plug it in.  Leave the breaker strip off, plug it all in and then click the switch on the strip.  Easy way to test it without electrocuting yourself.  See what happens, you'd be surprised with these old systems, I have only had one bad one of the 12-15 Cavaliers I've owned.

[Pixel]

I'm not sure what you mean by "breaker strip", one of those power-strip things that look like this? With or without surge protection?



Is it safe to test a machine with a bad/highly suspect compressor? I've always been afraid a bad one could start a fire.

[jholmgren]

I'm not sure what you mean by "breaker strip", one of those power-strip things that look like this? With or without surge protection?



Is it safe to test a machine with a bad/highly suspect compressor? I've always been afraid a bad one could start a fire.

Exactly - use the strip as a safe on/off switch.  Plug the machine into the strip with the switch off, and when you are ready - flip the switch on the strip.   I always fire up my machines in the garage for the first time and (because I own a British car) I have multiple fire extinguishers already available if something awesome happens.

Jim

[MoonDawg]

        While the test method is right on, I would not do it at the sellers house.

        The only thing you could prove is that his problem was only in the wiring and the machine actually works.   Price went up!

        Buy it from him as a "non-working" machine, don't even bother to plug it in until you get home.

[Pixel]

I texted the seller Friday night, and after a brief chat about the machine request a photo. Says he will send when he gets home.

Late Saturday morning, still no photo. I text again, saying I'd like to come look at that day, but want to see a photo first. I had
inferred this might be the right machine based on a previous ad, but I want to make sure before I go up there. No response at all.

I call Saturday afternoon, on a different phone with cheaper calling. Find out a few things about the machine, and ask the seller if he
will e-mail me a photo. I'm thinking maybe the picture messages were not going through, but I don't tell him. He suggests sending a
picture message, then I mention that I had already texted him twice asking for pictures. He replies that he was busy with roofing repairs. I
ask if he will send a picture to the "other phone" when he gets a chance. I say I might get back with him on it early next week, and that's
it.

I've asked three times for a picture and have yet to get one. Here's what I've learned along the way. I had some trouble understanding him over
the cell phone, but here's the gist.

Seller is a refrigeration repair man who acquired it intending to fix it himself.
Machine is locked, no key-but the seller is sure it is all there.
Machine had dents, but nothing major. No rust. (I think he said no rust.)
Seller does not know who made it, or even how many drinks it will hold.

The asking price is $250. IMO that's too much for one of these with a bad compressor. The body would have to be pretty much mint and
complete, and it's not in mint condition I'm pretty sure. The fact that the seller seems to be either unwilling or unable to send a picture is
highly problematic. The machine being locked is a red flag, no way to tell if complete and not rusted through somewhere inside.

I haven't given up yet, but I'm not that optimistic. If I was selling it, I think I'd have found 10 minutes somewhere and snapped a picture
and sent it on when asked.  

[MaineT]

As far as asking for pictures, I'm of school of thought that if you're interested then come take a look. I've taken pictures and pictures and answered tons of questions and those are the people are the time wasters. I'm not getting personal, its just what I've noticed. People that are real buyers and really interested will go out of their way to check out a lead.

Listed as project machine, doesn't cool. Question... "Does it work?".. "What color is it".... "What does it need to get it going"....really?
Yes, I've gotten these question on several occasions!   

If you are interested in it, go take a look or let this one go. But if you find out there was your dream machine beside it you're going to kick yourself! That's where the best stuff comes from.

[MoonDawg]

       The guy is "asking "$250.00, and you can't blame him, in fact he would like $2500.00 even better, but we know he will get neither.

       You can drive over there and show him your $100.00 cash or you can call and tell him that's your offer.
 
       Again, he either gets busy taking pictures,or fixing the refrigeration if he ever wants to get rid of this box.

[Pixel]

As far as asking for pictures, I'm of school of thought that if you're interested then come take a look. I've taken pictures and pictures and answered tons of questions and those are the people are the time wasters. I'm not getting personal, its just what I've noticed. People that are real buyers and really interested will go out of their way to check out a lead.

Listed as project machine, doesn't cool. Question... "Does it work?".. "What color is it".... "What does it need to get it going"....really?
Yes, I've gotten these question on several occasions!   

If you are interested in it, go take a look or let this one go. But if you find out there was your dream machine beside it you're going to kick yourself! That's where the best stuff comes from.

I wasn't necessarily expecting a mountain of photography, just wanted to know if it's was the right style. I'm looking for a very specific style machine. It doesn't necessarily have to be perfect. It probably won't be in my price range.  With gas at over $3 a gallon, I can't really afford too many trips out of the way only to find out that the machine being sold is a late 80's Cavalier punch button. If this is the same machine I saw posted with a pic back last summer, he could've just sent me that pic, no new ones even needed.

I don't think that a single picture or maybe two (with one being of the inside, if accessible) is an unreasonable request. In that respect I guess I take the opposing view, if a seller is serious, they'll at least provide a picture for identification. 

[MaineT]

You seem to be getting annoyed that he isn't doing what you want, but it's his item fir sale. Gas is $3 a gallon, I get that. If he won't jump thru hoops you have the option to go look at it. If he had pictures he could have put them in the ad. If he didn't put them in the ad then don't bang your head against the wall and wait for the next one.