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SodaShopNick
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« on: April 17, 2013, 07:14:27 pm » |
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Back in September of 2102 I started to have some cooling issues with my Cavalier 72 in which I started the following post: http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,15863.0.html . The general thought then was I had a leak (which I still could). So, I had a fridge guy take a look at it, not a vintage guy, but someone who was certified in Freon and recommended. Anyway, he can by and took a look at the machine and really did not want to tap into the line to check the coolant unless he really had too. So, he checked the wiring which was not original, but very old and it looked like there were several bad connections. In fact at one point one of the cords sparked. From this he thought I should at least replace the wiring and see what happens. I did this and the machine started running like it was brand new and has for about 5 months............until today!!! Today when I went to get a drink out of it I noticed it was cool, but not cold. The issue before was it would always blow hot air, but this time it is just not as cold as it should be. Any thoughts on what this could be? Just to be clear the only thing I have swapped out so far is the wiring and replaced the inside tub liner with a fill in from our friends at funtronics so I think it is sealed pretty well. When I did replace the wiring I actually had to turn the thermostat down as it was getting too cold, I guess I could try and turn it back up as it is getting warming out and the machine is in my garage. As always any thoughts on what this could be would be appreciated. |
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kbareit
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 08:22:42 pm » |
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Is the machine constantly running but not getting cold? Or is it cycling on and off normally?
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Cavalier 27
Jacobs 26
Ideal 55 Hires root beer, 7-Up restored
Ideal 55 Pepsi, Barqs original
Double cola,Squirt,Nesbitts,Canada Dry on deck
3 Westy 60's
3 Westy 78's
Cav 72 original
S&S 1400 WD2 Pepsi
Stoner Junior
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 08:32:32 pm » |
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kbareit,
I believe it is cycling, but I will need to confirm this as I just noticed it this afternoon and did not have the time to monitor it. I do know that this morning it was cycling the soda's were ice cold.
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collecture
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 09:10:39 pm » |
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I live in Phoenix and have a machine in my garage running 24/7 - they are always ice cold, so can't see that being your issue.
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Cav 27, 33, CS-55E-2, 72
S-48 DP
Ideal CC 35, Barq's 55
1930s DP Counter Cooler
Vendo Coin Changers (ea. style - orig w/ stand)
Vendo Junior (rest.), 23 Deluxe, 39D, 44, 56RT, 80SS, 81A (orig), 81D, 6 C.V.
VMC 27, 27A, 81D DP, 110 DP
Westy WC-42-T, WC-44SK, WD-5(2), WB60
Victor C-14
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 09:27:47 pm » |
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kbareit,
Actually in thinking back when I went to get the drink this afternoon when it was just cool the compressor was not running. I will check this again though and see if the compressor turns on and then off at some point.
Collecture,
Good point.
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kbareit
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 04:37:27 pm » |
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It sounds like the thermostat might be going bad. If it's cold at one time and warmer at another but being it does get cold partially rules out a low charge. Be sure that the condenser and evaporator fans are running and that the coils are clean.
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Cavalier 27
Jacobs 26
Ideal 55 Hires root beer, 7-Up restored
Ideal 55 Pepsi, Barqs original
Double cola,Squirt,Nesbitts,Canada Dry on deck
3 Westy 60's
3 Westy 78's
Cav 72 original
S&S 1400 WD2 Pepsi
Stoner Junior
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2013, 08:02:40 pm » |
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So I went ahead and did some testing today. I cleaned the condenser coils (they did not look bad, but cleaned them anyway) and turned on the machine. The evaporator and condenser fans are both working perfectly, but after running just about 1 hour the compressor never kicked on (but did get pretty hot). I tried to adjust the temperature from coldest to warmest, but still nothing. So, as before just cool, but not cold air. Could this possibly be a problem with the thermostat as it is original or could it be something worse? As always thanks in advance for any thoughts about this.
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cohammer
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2013, 09:06:09 pm » |
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If you are saying your condenser fan is running and your compressor is not . You do have a problem. They should run at the same time.
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« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 11:43:33 am by cohammer »
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Ideal 35 RC
v 23 deluxe
v 39
c 96
c 55 e
C 51 g
C 72
C96
V 27
Westinghouse JR ice chest
Westinghouse standard ice chest
Westinghouse master ice chest
early model Stoner jr.
Stoner theaters
Thanks Jeff
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2013, 09:25:18 pm » |
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Sorry, I was not clear. Both the evaporator and condenser fan are running just fine, I just don't hear the compressor kick on.
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collecture
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 09:26:10 am » |
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If your compressor is getting hot to the touch, then it is running.
The evap fan runs 24/7 and the condenser fan should run in synch with the compressor as controlled by the T-stat.
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Cav 27, 33, CS-55E-2, 72
S-48 DP
Ideal CC 35, Barq's 55
1930s DP Counter Cooler
Vendo Coin Changers (ea. style - orig w/ stand)
Vendo Junior (rest.), 23 Deluxe, 39D, 44, 56RT, 80SS, 81A (orig), 81D, 6 C.V.
VMC 27, 27A, 81D DP, 110 DP
Westy WC-42-T, WC-44SK, WD-5(2), WB60
Victor C-14
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 11:48:32 am » |
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collecture,
So that is interesting as I don't hear it actually kick on. What I mean by this is when it is trying to get it to temperature you can hear a distinct difference in sounds then when just the fans are running. I never hear that. Also, when it was running yesterday I noticed there was not as much quantity of air circulating through the interrior of the machine then when it is cooling properly.
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kbareit
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 12:27:07 pm » |
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Your relay might be bad if the compressor is hot to the touch. What might be happening is the relay is not closing for the start winding to get the compressor running. Or the compressor could be locked up in which case the compressor would have to be replaced. To find out either way is to get a 1/3 hp 3 in 1 start relay and overload kit and install it to see if the compressor will start and run. If it does run the relay was bad if it doesn't the compressor is locked. Funtronics has the 3 in 1's or I can hook you up with one.
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Cavalier 27
Jacobs 26
Ideal 55 Hires root beer, 7-Up restored
Ideal 55 Pepsi, Barqs original
Double cola,Squirt,Nesbitts,Canada Dry on deck
3 Westy 60's
3 Westy 78's
Cav 72 original
S&S 1400 WD2 Pepsi
Stoner Junior
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2013, 05:37:26 pm » |
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PM sent to kbareit
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MoonDawg
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 06:03:35 pm » |
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I have a machine that had a locked up compressor when it came in. Tried a 3 in 1 and of course didn't help. Hit it a few times with a big hammer, works fine for now.  |
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Glen
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 06:14:41 pm » |
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Spoke with Ken and he has giving me a few things to check. Will report back. MoonDawg - The old hammer trick....nice  |
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jholmgren
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 06:41:25 pm » |
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I have a machine that had a locked up compressor when it came in. Tried a 3 in 1 and of course didn't help. Hit it a few times with a big hammer, works fine for now. No substitute for a little "percussive maintenance".  |
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Embossed Coke Ideal 55 Slider
VMC-44
Vendo V-80
Westinghouse WE-6
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kbareit
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 07:21:56 pm » |
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I have a machine that had a locked up compressor when it came in. Tried a 3 in 1 and of course didn't help. Hit it a few times with a big hammer, works fine for now. I had a tech support guy ask me if I tried whacking a compressor with a hammer because it was locked up. I asked him if he was nuts and asked for another tech. The cooler was 3 weeks old and the last thing I wanted the customer to see is me beating the hell out his new cooler. |
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Cavalier 27
Jacobs 26
Ideal 55 Hires root beer, 7-Up restored
Ideal 55 Pepsi, Barqs original
Double cola,Squirt,Nesbitts,Canada Dry on deck
3 Westy 60's
3 Westy 78's
Cav 72 original
S&S 1400 WD2 Pepsi
Stoner Junior
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Yarochrehc
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 08:29:32 pm » |
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I've had the hammer trick work more than once as long as you're carefull.
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Bob
Restored
Vendo H63B Coke in use in basement
Original
Vendo V/VF63/7 Pepsi in use
Restoring: Glascock Standard
(2) Vendo 63
(2)Vendo 90
Vendo 126 waiting for paint
VMC 56
Westinghouse WE-6
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johnieG
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 12:59:09 am » |
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Quite frankly, I'd stop beating around the "hammer trick" & replace the freakin' compressor already.  (poorly paraphrased from Star trek ) Bones...It's dead Jim. |
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Spoon-feeding Newbies since 2001...  Yeah..220,221 whatever it takes. Remember, all it needs is a shot of Freon! The Vendo V-83 is the '59 Edsel of the coke machine world. ;p Spray painting does NOT restore a compressor 11 is louder than 10... "Hope" is good, but it's not an action plan. |
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Larry
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 07:27:46 am » |
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By any chance do you have an amp meter? It sounds like the compressor is definately locked up. The meter will show a constant high locked rotor amps, LRA, instead of high amps and then it would drop to low amps, your running amps, RLA or FLA. Is a 3-1 the same as a hard start kit? I used one on a stubourn compressor once and it ran fine, but I would also agree that it may be time for a new compressor. It sounds like it is dead or dying. By the way I never used the hammer trick, but I do remember one teacher talking about it to free up a compressor. I always thought that sounded crazy, but it makes sense.  |
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A lot of stuff.
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2013, 07:07:44 pm » |
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I actually messed with it a bit over the weekend and without using the hammer trick the compressor did click on a few times, but then stopped and I did hear some clicking. My thought after speaking with Ken is this is a bad relay. In the end I may just be avoiding the cost of replacing the compressor, but I also don't have anyone local who can replace it  . I will report back once the relay is replaced. As always thanks for all the help. |
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SodaShopNick
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 07:45:13 pm » |
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Worked with Ken (kbareit) and replaced the overload relay late yesterday and after about 1 hour I was back to ice cold drinks and as of today still am. So it appears that did the trick. Thanks Ken and everyone for your help.
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jholmgren
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2013, 07:55:37 pm » |
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Bravo Ken - nice job on the Tech Support! Jim |
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Embossed Coke Ideal 55 Slider
VMC-44
Vendo V-80
Westinghouse WE-6
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kbareit
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2013, 09:22:17 pm » |
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Glad to help Nick.
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Cavalier 27
Jacobs 26
Ideal 55 Hires root beer, 7-Up restored
Ideal 55 Pepsi, Barqs original
Double cola,Squirt,Nesbitts,Canada Dry on deck
3 Westy 60's
3 Westy 78's
Cav 72 original
S&S 1400 WD2 Pepsi
Stoner Junior
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tkaz
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2013, 10:03:28 pm » |
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Nice work all around! Always good to see this stuff work out
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