Classic Soda Machines Book

[Marvin]

Looks like the book is being released for digitally for a Kindle.

Could come in handy for some people.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BAK5O8M

[Slapshot42]

I have a digital copy it's a larger file so I would have to zip it to email it.

If someone has the no how it would be a nice to put it in the Downloads section.

Jared

[Kilroy]

Geez, louise, at least update it.   prices from 1999?  And anyone note who the "editor" is.

[bcharlton]

It's by Jeff Walters and I think he has been MIA for quite a while.  Someone with more info about Jeff please respond.

BC

[SIGNGUY]

Yeah I think Jeff is MIA..

the issue of this book being so out of date is been brought up before with all sorts of ideas of how to update it.. in reality without publishing a new book and incurring the cost which many have looked into , it's hard to revise.

one Idea I had is we could just make our own "Updated" price guide kind of like an insert to use with the book if you have one.. still use the images and condition ratings that are in the book but just a reference sheet with new updated 2013 prices.

[Chris]

I have a digital copy it's a larger file so I would have to zip it to email it.

If someone has the no how it would be a nice to put it in the Downloads section.

Jared

Jared if you have a way to get it to me I'll try and get it together for the Downloads section.

Chris

[tkaz]

Rick Dale (editor)

[Marvin]

I bought a Dr Pepper sign off ebay a few weeks back.  After I had payed, I noticed that I sent money to Jeff Walters.  During the time I bought and checked the item, he had changed his user name.

He's still around.  Just looks like he is keeping a low profile.

[Chris]

Yeah I think Jeff is MIA..

the issue of this book being so out of date is been brought up before with all sorts of ideas of how to update it.. in reality without publishing a new book and incurring the cost which many have looked into , it's hard to revise.

one Idea I had is we could just make our own "Updated" price guide kind of like an insert to use with the book if you have one.. still use the images and condition ratings that are in the book but just a reference sheet with new updated 2013 prices.

If I could get the digital copy of the book then I might could make a database of the machines and we could post it here with someone having the means of updating the prices based on sales.

Just a thought.

[SIGNGUY]

I think the values could be done on a poll system so we could get an average.

so for example:

Vendo 81 B coke machine
unrestored but complete Value 1800-2000
Fully professional restored $6500-$7000

Vendo 39 Coke machine
Unrestored but complete 600-800
Restored 4500-5000

or something like that? just a thought

[MoonDawg]

      A poll is a good idea John.

      SMC members as a group have a much better grip on current prices than Rick Dale seems to express.

      In the 1999 book, the 81D is listed at $1950.00 unrestored and $4450.00 restored.

      It may take a few months but we could use the survey function in this discussion area to get current prices from members who have witnessed actual sales, not just asking prices of these machines.

       Example of 2013 prices of the 81D...........$1950.00 / $6450.00 ?  ?  ?  

[mznb1u]

If Jeff is MIA, How can Rick Dale be editing his work and putting it online?

  Tim

[Kilroy]

and edit what? It's a 14 yr old version, and states  the material and prices are from 1999.  I guess the sheep factor,  Put a familiar name on something and people won't question it

[Marvin]

Why did this turn into a bashing thread? 

I simply put a link to a reference material that was until now NLA.  Or when you found one it was big $$

I'm no fan of Rick Dale, but he did something that no one here has done and gotten something that had been extinct and brought it back.

[jholmgren]

Why did this turn into a bashing thread? 

I simply put a link to a reference material that was until now NLA.  Or when you found one it was big $$

I'm no fan of Rick Dale, but he did something that no one here has done and gotten something that had been extinct and brought it back.

I agree - it seems like Rick Dale (or his 'people') took the initiative here - like him or not he took an out of print book, secured the copyright for it and re-published it.  I would be surprised if he added any content, other than to put his name on it.   

Based on the popularity of his show, and the fact that it is being offered as digital content - this is nearly pure profit for him.  Honestly, I'm a little jealous - wish I would have thought of it.      Then again - nobody would buy a book with my picture on the cover.

...and hey - the prices are from 1999, so if he doesn't update them with "his" prices (sounds unlikely from the description) - maybe all of those $15,000 half trashed 81d's will come down a little in price.   

Jim

[Kilroy]

I'm noit bashing. Nor would I purchase an  electronic  version of a 1999 encyclopedia.  If it makes money, congratulations, and i imagine it will since people won't notice the warning that it is  a copy last updated in 1999. 
and  using the logic I've seen on CL and ebay, wow, my trashed machine must be triple the value  of what's in the book so don't low ball me

[Kaleid20]

I posted this thread awhile back. This was something I was definitely interested in getting updated to today's market.

http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,15417.msg119974.html#msg119974

[MoonDawg]

I posted this thread awhile back. This was something I was definitely interested in getting updated to today's market.

http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,15417.msg119974.html#msg119974

       Glad you brought this back. I like the pricing.

[Jonathan816]

Pricing information is very helpful, if someone can get me the digital copy I have a full version of adobe and can try to work my magic as I've gotten 30mb files down to 6mb.

[66GTO]

I posted this thread awhile back. This was something I was definitely interested in getting updated to today's market.

http://soda-machines.com/discussions/index.php/topic,15417.msg119974.html#msg119974

I vote that we thumb tack (or whatever its called) this post at the top of the "Estimated Values" section.  I find myself referring to it a lot.  It can be a constantly evolving price list. And let's expand the list to cover some of the models that are missing...

[rayg]

The price guide would have to a living document to reflect the ever changing market

[MoonDawg]

       The price guide should at least be updated every 10 years, although it took quite a wild ride this last decade 

[Creighton]

A comprehensive ID database like Jim has already built here is of great use. You can find what the machine is, research and ask questions.

A real price guide would need to encompass and list so many variables and take those into account to be anything of use. Location,condition,complete,cooling,restored... Lot of work and would never be 100% accurate even as a "ballpark number".

As mentioned before it is a good deal the re-release still has 1999 prices.

Our toys cost a fair amount of coin so due research buy the buyer is required. Only a fool would make purchase decisions based on only what a book says.
Creighton

[mygoose101]

There were a few soda guys here in California who kicked off the soda machine hobby back in the 80's who are no longer doing this. Jeff Walters, Mike Page, Chris Davis, Dan Cooney and I know I'm forgetting a couple. Jeff Walters did the price books and the Soda Sweethearts Calendars. Most of the machines in the calendars were restored by one of these guys. From what I have heard they were all pretty good friends but in time all pursued other interests. 

[davethebirdman]

I have a copy of the book. Its a great reference for the descriptions etc. Not sure we should get too hung up on prices.

I know I would have to pay far more over here than I would in the US and it would appear that a machine on the West Coast is going to be different in price to one on the East Coast etc.

Coupled with this is the fact that sellers will sell a machine for the highest price they can get and a buyer will try and get it for the lowest. It sort of makes the idea of a price list redundant. After all you are not buying a TV from Wallmart.

You try showing the book to a seller and saying "Look it says it only worth $1000 in my book..." He'll tell you to poke the book where the sun don't shine.

If you are buying for investment then you need to do lots of homework before splashing the cash. If you are buying to flip then you need lots of negotiating skills. If you are buying to keep then you are going to pay what you can afford.

Experience comes in the form of putting the hours in on sites like this. I've never seen a 83 or a Cavalier 96 but by listening to you guys I'd have a fair ideas at what I was looking at if I ever did come across one.

Just my slant. Please don't shoot me down...

[kbareit]

I have a copy of the the Jeff Walters book that I got from Slider Bob and find it to be a great resource in identifying machines. Do I use the price guide? Yes, as a guide only. There are so many variables to a machine that no book can tell you what it's worth. We are fortunate that we have an evolving price guide, Estimated Values. I'll admit I've overpaid for a couple machines and underpaid for a few. It still comes down to what the machine is being purchased for and how much is willing to be spent.

Just my 2 cents
Ken

[pinballdude]

Ok, so can you tell me where this "Estimated Values" section is located on the site? I looked on the home page and do not see it.  Is it a list? or is it tacked on with each machine's description?

[SIGNGUY]

I have a copy of the the Jeff Walters book that I got from Slider Bob and find it to be a great resource in identifying machines. Do I use the price guide? Yes, as a guide only. There are so many variables to a machine that no book can tell you what it's worth. We are fortunate that we have an evolving price guide, Estimated Values. I'll admit I've overpaid for a couple machines and underpaid for a few. It still comes down to what the machine is being purchased for and how much is willing to be spent.

Just my 2 cents
Ken

Ken I agree with your quote... and I also agree with others and Creighton.. it is hard to put values , because
"WE" as seasoned veterans, most of us... know what to look for ... what I found the book helpful on when I first started and then on was knowing that OH.. a Siphonmix vendor is quite valuable and if I find one for 500 I better buy it... vs should I pay 1200-1500 for an 81

[davethebirdman]

Yeap ... Rarity is something worth knowing..

[MoonDawg]

       The book shows a nice Lyon 500, so rare that no machines had  been offered for sale, so no value price is attatched.
       Some of us followed an e-bay auction for one several years ago, that should have established what people are willing to pay. Also, one of our own members has aquired not 1 but 2 of these, his input would be valuable as well.
       If one came up for sale locally I'm not sure how much I should pay in order to buy it right. On the other hand, neither does the new generation "picker" who has downloaded this app and many others into his e-book.    been

[BrianS]

Ok, so can you tell me where this "Estimated Values" section is located on the site? I looked on the home page and do not see it.  Is it a list? or is it tacked on with each machine's description?

The Estimated Values section is a heading on the Discussion Areas Main Page.  Its the 4th heading from the top.  Its not a machine by machine list, its just an ongoing list of posts discussing various machine models and questions asked by others regarding something they have come across.  For my .02, it seems like the search feature can bring up a current topic on price for almost anything but the rarest of items.  It also allows you to see the corresponding photos so you can attach a condition factor  to the machine you are looking at.

[Creighton]

Great thread.
Good point on the rare and valuable machines. They just don't show up here.
Creighton

[pinballdude]

Oops. I was looking for estimated Values on the SMC home page not the discussion pages. I automatically go to the unread topics section of the forum.

[MaineT]

     A poll is a good idea John.

      SMC members as a group have a much better grip on current prices than Rick Dale seems to express.

      In the 1999 book, the 81D is listed at $1950.00 unrestored and $4450.00 restored.

      It may take a few months but we could use the survey function in this discussion area to get current prices from members who have witnessed actual sales, not just asking prices of these machines.

       Example of 2013 prices of the 81D...........$1950.00 / $6450.00 ?  ?  ?  

The major problem that I see is that people would have to only chime in if they have actually SOLD a machine and then be honest about it. That is not going to work here. Everyone here wants to buy wholesale and then flip for a profit so they all think everything selling is overpriced and will only chime in with their buy prices and not their sold prices.

The whole "what would you pay" survey won't work because it would have to be about actual sales for fair market value which won't happen.

If SMC members ever came into reality with the pricing then it would have some value but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Eric]

The major problem that I see is that people would have to only chime in if they have actually SOLD a machine and then be honest about it. That is not going to work here. Everyone here wants to buy wholesale and then flip for a profit so they all think everything selling is overpriced and will only chime in with their buy prices and not their sold prices.

The whole "what would you pay" survey won't work because it would have to be about actual sales for fair market value which won't happen.

If SMC members ever came into reality with the pricing then it would have some value but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Wow.. tell us how you really feel about the group...  Is this yourself included....

[MaineT]

Wow.. tell us how you really feel about the group...  Is this yourself included....

I've been upfront with what I get if I buy or sell a machine. I started a topic on prices a couple of months ago that had a couple of members being honest.... and a lot of silence from those not wanting to tell!! I've been saying for a long time that I wasn't in this 20 years ago when you could buy machines everywhere at the prices everyone wants them for now. Now a days, these prices are the one off and there are deals out there but that doesn't mean a fair market value or replacement price for a vendo 81 or cav 72 is $750 to $1000 although they can be found for that and flipped or kept for a smoking deal.

SMC is a place of collectors that are patient people that are a lot smarter with their money then the average joe that wants a machine or 2. That doesn't mean that is the market. The market includes the auctions where they go for a mint and flop on their face, not just the ones where they flop on their face! That is our buy price point.

Also, if a machine lasts a couple of days on Craigslist, that's not even close to fair market value.... Those are the chase machines and ate the steals that have to be taken out of the "sale" prices just like the auction fliers that are also out of reality because it was used in a movie, owned by a celebrity, charity event, etc... 

And yes, I'm a lot more cynical about this place now that someone here tried to F me in a big way!!!! Made me a lowball offer on a machine that wasn't for sale, forgetting I tried to buy the same one from his but he backed out at a price almost quadruple his offer to buy mine!! If quadruple wasn't enough for him to part with his, why offer me 1/4 of that to try to buy mine and tell me they aren't worth anything....

There are a lot of really good people here, but there are a few waiting to screw you too.

[bcharlton]

I think I enjoyed the site a little better years ago when it wasn't so "money oriented".

Once again I find myself saying that I don't begrudge anyone from making a buck, but I don't remember the site focusing so much of it's energy on threads on how much things could be 'flipped" for.  I do not blame the members.

I blame the two TV shows that have made it a lot less fun to collect old stuff from the forties and fifties.  I'm glad my first 10 years collecting I did not have to explain why a rusted non working Vendo 39 wasn't worth $3000 because with a "new" paint job, you could get $6 grand for it.

Maybe we should have a "I just want to flip it" forum section that could be a based on member's "great deals and frustrations" with those who relay heavily on the income this hobby produces.

Just my .02

[MoonDawg]

       Knowing pricing is not only for flipping, collectors don't want to overpay for something they like .........or hesitate too long on something that is priced low.

The whole "what would you pay" survey won't work because it would have to be about actual sales for fair market value which won't happen.

       Input wouldn't have to come from our own sales, Craigslist ads and  completed ebay sales and can be input by anybody.
     I did sell a nice unrestored 81D on E-bay last week for $3000.00, that I am not to timid to disclose, and it will be shipping to Austrailia. 2 other members here have made some nice purchases on 81's this week and those will be on the market soon. I see no reason why selling prices would not be disclosed AFTER the machine has sold, after all, they were listed on e-bay for the world to see. But none of these 3 machines fall into either the low or high end of the pricing spectrum that we have established now, they are either above average original or an early restoration.
       Since a few members have already offered their help, my thinking is that a lot of this information could be added to a database somehow, at least for our most popular models, and come up with some pretty valuable information.
             I know I would be watching trends like are prices higher when Rick is on TV? Which countries are buying? How does the economy affect Soda machine prices? etc.

[MaineT]

       Knowing pricing is not only for flipping, collectors don't want to overpay for something they like .........or hesitate too long on something that is priced low.

Well, I'm getting lit up with PM's from people telling me that they agree with what I said. Thanks for the support.

If you had to say what cars were worth and could only watch Barrett Jackson you would think every car out there is worth at least $50,000-150,000, but you can't ignore these sales when saying what they are worth.

Real collectors are the ones paying top dollar for items if it's coke machines when they find the right ones, cars, gas & oil stuff, stamps, coins, etc.

Retail sales are the top of the market that will be hard to capture but I say lets give it a try if you know people that are going to be willing to share.

I think it would have value to have this info out there to correct the perceptions of value so I will be in if sell a machine or see ones to include. It will only be possible to keep this for the more common machines as the one offs will not have a sample size to get a statistically relevant price.

Auction result.... This is one of the ones that I'm talking about when talking about the other end of the spectrum. This is a flier just as much as the $1500 Vendo 81D that 'could' be a "sale price" but could also be to flipped for a profit.
Vendo 44--- $17,000 - December 2012- Must have been filled with silver coins!!!
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/14992806_antique-model-44-coke-machine

[MaineT]

As far as prices, I think there should be 3 price points if you are tracking.

Restored.
Clean/presentable original
Needs restoration

I've said it before, I would pay more for most clean originals before I paid anything close to the "professionally restored" prices. Although the money was spent, to me your devaluing the machine by restoring it if it was a good clean original. If its a clean original the restorer still has to put $3-4000 into it whether or not it needs it.

Its not a knock on restorers, they do great work and 65-75% of the machines will fall into the needs restoration category and will have completely different values from the premium original machines.

[MoonDawg]

As far as prices, I think there should be 3 price points if you are tracking.

Restored.
Clean/presentable original
Needs restoration

       Perfect 

[Creighton]

Okay, working on whiteboarding the database structure.
How about:

Barnfind, in the wild
Orginal Unmolested
Original minor attempt at restore
Restored Badly
Restored Well

Here it starts to get tricky, will need input on what folks want for the editing and how the rating/sorting index works.
Up for sugesstions, the way individual machines would be listed. My stab at it. Rating for this is 1-5.

Vendo 81 D:
Private sale: $1800
eBay Listing:
CL Listing:
Other:
Orginal Condition Rated: 4
Missing Parts: No
Cooling: Yes
Serial Number: xxxaaxx
Comments: Clean orginal with Spirit boy decal attached

Next and most important issues are if SMC can support an user input dynamic database and if pics can be linked.
Creighton

[MaineT]

Barnfind, in the wild
Orginal Unmolested
Original minor attempt at restore
Restored Badly
Restored Well

I though about a 5 level system like cars, but you need 25-30 per year of each level to establish the price... That's a lot of data!!
I would think a 4 system could work if you want to expand past 3.

Total piece of $hit- (ugly as $2 hooker- consider parting or 100% restoration)
Nice original- (should be the highest and will be someday!!)
amateur restoration (or older restoration)
Fresh off a rotisserie 100% restoration RETAIL SALE!

[Slapshot42]

On a positive note thanks to a board member I was able to re-size the PDF copy from 51.5mb to! 13.5mb.

I sent a message to Jim to see if he can have the re-sized copy sent :to the member download section...

Thanks Jonathan816

[Creighton]

This thread has gone in two directions. Sorry.
I have started another in "Estimated Values" that with any luck will get enough input to build a database that is somewhat helpful.

Moved my last comments over to the new thread. Sure as !%@$ don't want to touch others posts so do as you please.

Creighton