Need Help (Any Pilots On Here)

[Funtronics]

I know this has nothing to do with soda machines, but maybe someone here can help me and my son out. My son is a senior at Embry Riddle Aviation college in Daytona. Our lovely President just pasted a new law that requires pilots to have more flying hours. I'm not a pilot and know nothing about aircrafts. When my son tells me all these terms and things he needs it is all like Greek to me. The situation that he faces now is that with the extra hours required to get a job in the Airline field will be very hard and expensive to achieve. He tells me that it would be cheaper to buy a plane and build his hours and then sell the plane and then he would be able to get a job with an airline. He is going to stay and go a few extra years to get his Masters to be able to work on the planes. Are there any pilots on here that can help point me in the right direction. I know nothing about flying let alone about buying a two or four seater plane. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[MoonDawg]

       Did you try and locate our Embry graduate.....Josh?   He may know more.

[SIGNGUY]

I tried replying with a cool photo of an airplaine done up in Coke , figured you could use it as a write off.. but the post wouldn't take the picture...  but trust me it was going to be funny!  

ammended, was able to add the photo...

[GreginNM]

Rod,

Glad to hear your son is doing well at ERAU!  I still remember talking with you and him before he went.  I guess I'm qualified to give some thoughts here since I am sitting with a bit over 4300 hours flying and 22.5 years and counting in the Air Force! 

He could buy a smaller, 2 seat plane and do his flying that way.  There are a few guys in my squadron that have planes and fly around pretty regularly.  It does get costly, since planes and insurance aren't cheap.  You also have to figure in hangar costs, annual maintenance, and fuel.  Renting a plane is also an option, but again it can get spendy as well.  Sometimes you can find a guy that has a plane and is willing to split fuel costs to go up and fly around together.  This is a good deal if you can find someone to do this with.

We chatted a bit about it here in my office, and the concensus is to find a Guard or Reserve Air Force unit to get hired on with that will give him a pilot slot in the unit.  They will send him to pilot training (good training and experience), and then he can fly with the unit and build hours there.  An added bonus is that most of the guys in the units are airline pilots, so he will be able to get advice and possibly a foot or two in the door at the airline of his choice once he gets the required hours.  As a part time guy, he can do other things while building hours.  If he goes full time, then he can build more hours and have a good, steady paycheck.  There are Guard and Reserve units all over the country, so he can pick a few areas he wants to live and then see what openings they have.  I had a girlfriend in Hagerstown during my pilot training days, and flew out to see her with the C-130 guys in Delaware...so there are even units close to home.  I see openings posted all the time on USAJobs and baseops.net for units looking to hire guys into flying slots.

Let me know if this helps, and shoot me a note if you have any other questions!

Greg

[MaineT]

Not a pilot here, but had a lot of contact working on airplanes for about 8 years back in the day.

He can look into Civil Air Patrol, they use to have lots of free flying opportunities for their sorties. They also rent dry and wet to dry to their members at cheaper rates then just hourly renting at the jetports.

I know someone that use to shuttle airplanes around just for the hours. basically you don't get paid squat, but you build the hours. you need look for those opportunities, but they are out there. Basically like working for Hertz rent a car shuttling cars around for maintenance and getting them where they need to go.

Also, If he is graduating, he should be close to CFII, I've known a couple of people that have done it and other things just to build the hours. It is a long hard and very expensive road. Watch out going into the guard or reserves, there are a lot of promises that may not come true.... Great if it works out, but get EVERYTHING in writing.

Airplanes are expensive, hangar/parking costs, insurance, inspections, maintenance.... and it all has to be done by the A&P, so think of bringing your BMW into the dealership and saying, "inspect it and fix everything you find and just send me a bill!!" Do the math and you will understand why they charge that much per hour for the rental costs and it may not work out as cheaply as you think.

Its a gamble, but if you don't have any problems, hard landings, damage and can get your money back out of it in the end he may be correct about the costs vs renting hourly.

Have you ever owned a boat? Talk to some airplane owners.. and FORMER owners before doing it. And GOOD LUCK.

[mznb1u]

Not a pilot although I was one in high school-that was our mascot because we were right across the street from Detroit City Airport. In any event, I have a good friend who is a pilot and he belongs to a club that owns several aircraft that are available to member pilots. As I understand it, it is like a country club where you buy in and there are dues but instead of playing golf, you fly the clubs planes that you are qualified to fly. Given the costs to acquire, store and maintain an airplane; I would think that this would be a better option than buying a plane outright. I will check with my buddy to see if there is some kind of directory to find similar clubs around the country.

Tim

[MoonDawg]

     I believe the yacht clubs operate in much the same way.

[SIGNGUY]

Maybe we should do the same with soda machines... next RC 81 that shows up... lets all go in on it and then share it.. 6 months at a time , we'll just let it travel around the country, swap it out at Trade shows and have to ship it occassionally... We'll all take pictures of it in our collections, everyone will think they aren't rare any more and we'll be buying them up for the price of regulary ol V81 Coke Machines in no time!

[Funtronics]

Maybe we should do the same with soda machines... next RC 81 that shows up... lets all go in on it and then share it.. 6 months at a time , we'll just let it travel around the country, swap it out at Trade shows and have to ship it occassionally... We'll all take pictures of it in our collections, everyone will think they aren't rare any more and we'll be buying them up for the price of regulary ol V81 Coke Machines in no time!

........

[ss540]

I wonder what else our "lovely" president has planned for us?

[msanborn]

Rod:  I second what Greginnm said, the military offers a tremendous opportunity, free hours, planes, training, gas, and a good paycheck.  Many of the USMC Pilots I knew back in the day are currently working for the airlines.  Good luck.   

[Zach]

I am a private pilot and a student at the Metropolitan State University of Denver, I am graduating in the spring with a degree in Aviation Management. My colleagues and I have been facing this same problem for close to 4 years now still trying to figure out what to do. We had all wanted to be professional pilots and quickly got drawn away because of the costs. The new rule passed by congress (like they would know a thing about being a pilot), will take effect in August 2013 and is that an entry level job as a first officer will require 1,500 hours of flight time compared to the minimum of 250 hours currently. Reaching 1,500 hours of flight time will take a significant investment of money and time just to get a job making maybe $20k a year. Many say just become a flight instructor (CFI) and build hours training students, but building 1,500 hours as a CFI will take many years while making not much more than $12 an hour. With the new rule, there will be a large supply of flight instructors and a limited supply of students, so building hours as a CFI will take a long time. How do they expect someone to invest upwards of $80k on flight training and college to then make $12 an hour for years as a CFI and then just maybe $20k as a first officer for many years more while trying to live and pay back debt? My colleagues and I have for the most part given up for now and are chasing much better paying jobs within the industry and are flying just for fun now. The FAA states they want pilots to be smart, but if your smart you don't become a pilot because anyone with a GED can realize that spending at least $80k to make maybe $20k a year is not a wise choice when you can spend the same money on a better degree that will provide a better return on your investment. The pilots that I do know that are building hours either have rich parents or are taking massive loans at high interest rates. Many argue military, which is a great option if you can get what your promised and are up to the health standards. Believe me, every single person I go to school with wants to fly F-16's including myself, but there simply is not enough military flight spots for everyone, especially if military expenditures get cut. I myself have looked into buying a plane but just can't justify it, it is far cheaper to rent than own considering all the costs associated with it unless you can find people to split the expenses. Buying a plane may be practical, but buying the plane is the easy part, flying and maintaining it is what is expensive. A small plane burns 6-8 gallons an hour, at over $5 a gallon you will spend $30 to $40 an hour on fuel alone, not to mention oil, tires, maintenance, hangering, an annual inspection, insurance, your monthly payment and those small nagging expenses that always seem to show up.

I don't mean to sound negative and yes making it in the pilot world is possible, but there is no simple answer to the question. Believe me, I have been facing this problem for my entire college career and my colleagues, professors and myself still can't find that magical answer to that question. My route right now is to graduate, then work on an MBA so that I can get a good paying job that will help me pay for my flying. I'd kill to fly helicopters but don't get me started on that, $380 an hour for the cheapest of helicopters is not affordable as a college student. I've considered selling my VMC 81 7UP to take helicopter lessons, but what I would get for that machine wouldn't get me too far flying helicopters. My suggestion is to spend your money on education right now not all on flying, our best chance for aspiring pilots is to stand up to congress. If we can get congress to realize that the new rule will make it near impossible to become a pilot they may drop the hourly requirement. Flying is not cheap, nor will it ever be, but paying good money for hours in a log book is not logical when that money can be invested somewhere else. An airman certificate is worthless if you don't have a medical certificate to back it up, what happens if you get injured badly or develop health problems that cause you to loose your medical? You airman certificate is now worthless and the hours in your logbook that you just spent dang good money on are now worthless too. Like I said there is no simple answer, if you can get a military flight spot jump on it, but they are limited and difficult to achieve. Our best chance is to fight against congress and have the new rule revoked or adjusted so that it will be practical to become a pilot. I can go on and on about this, but experiencing the same problem first hand with my colleagues too, we have learned that becoming a professional pilot is a difficult challenge and for now flying is just a hobby we like to do to attract chicks and pretend to be Maverick from Top Gun. Any SMC members reading this, help us fellow pilots stand up to congress about the new rule!

[MoonDawg]

      That new law is bound to create a shortage of pilots when at the same time flying becomes our preferred method of transportation.

      If government feels the new minimum hours are necessary, they should offer air carriers a hefty tax incentive to hire student pilots even as baggage handlers, as long as they have a chance to fly a few hours each week.

[Zach]

You are absolutely right, the only solution I can see would be a cadet program of some sort of the other offered by the airlines. Cadet programs are common in other countries but not in the US.