So what would you do?

[Aahgo]

I need advice.  I bought a 7-up LaCrosse 81 machine last year (My first).  The wiring was bad, but I was able to plug in the compressor direct and confirmed it was at least starting to frost up the lines. I decided at this point to go ahead and restore  the machine.

Now, a year later, I have re-assembled it and am not getting any cooling at all.  Here's what it does do: when the t-stat is turned to off, evaporator fan runs, compressor is off.  When t-stat is turned up, compressor fan also comes on and you can hear the compressor try to start several times, then (I think) it stays on and runs, but is not getting cold.  When I place my hand on top of the compressor it is warm.  If I shut everything off, I can hear sounds in the evaporator like liquid/gas moving around.  If I bypass the T-stat and plug the compressor in direct, it seems to start but does not get cold.

I paid $350 for the machine originally, and don't think its worth putting a lot more into it.  I think my options are this, cheapest to most expensive:
1) buy some Freeze 12, find some guages and try to recharge it and hope there are no leaks (never done this so it would be a learning experience).
2) same as above but add a stop leak product and hope.
3) find a parts machine with a working compressor and swap them out.
4) find a local refrigeration repair guy and pay him to fix it.
5) send it to someone like Global Compressor to recondition it.

So, what would you do?

Thanks,
Glenn.

[Yarochrehc]

You should probably find a local refrigeration tech. to do the repair as you will need more equipment than a set of gauges, to do it properly you will need a nitrogen tank & gauge to pressurise the system to check for leaks, then you will need torch and soldier to fix the leak if there is one, then a vacuum pump to evacuate the system from any moisture and contaminates then add the refrigerant.
This can be quite a bit of work.

You could also send it to Global Compressor as well.

[loman4ec]

I have also successfully installed cooling systems from other machines into machines that have a dead system. I have put vendo systems in cavalier machines and vice versa. As long as the line going from the deck to the evaporator is on the same side as yours and The evaporator and or condenser is not too tall and the evaporator is similar size to fit then you should be good. I say this because it widens your search for a parts machine. You  could keep your eyes open on craigslist and find a rusted out or just a common machine that cools for like $50 and instal that system in yours and then sell any good parts on ebay and then take the rest in for scrap. I took three machines in for scrap when I moved and got $75 from them in scrap metal and they were just shells so a heavy pushbutton machine may get you good money in scrap. This is not 100% guarenteed to work but it is probably what I would do. I have made good money in parting machines out as long as you are patient and are mechanically handy you should end up with a cooling system either really cheap or you may make some money.

[johnieG]

Actually, If you can hear the gas gurgling in the lines ( up in the evaporator area) after the compressor shuts off, then the unit probably has some gas in it. if it's not getting cold up top, be sure to check the obvious like the evaporator's fan ( it should always be running, unless your Lacrosse is equipped with an inside door switch that would shut it off when the inside door is opened)

most Lacrosse compressor decks are equipped with a low-side service valve that will accept a standard R12 gauge set, so it wouldn't be difficult to test the system for a proper charge, or if needed, to add some more refrigerant, if you decide that you'll be using leak stop, be sure it's for metallic (metal) leaks, don't use the type that advertises it is for O-ring seal leaks ( rubber seals) as it may attack the electric motors insulation
( inside the compressor)

to check for leaks you can use some liquid leak detector ( sold at HVAC stores) that will bubble when it finds a leak, most likely spots are at the joints where two lines come together, or at compression fittings, and anywhere the lines may have been kinked,

You can also inject some Ultra-violet (UV) dye into the system when it is recharged & use a UV light to inspect for leaks in the system..

as you can see, it can get quite involved, you may wish to contact a refrigeration repair person...or replace the system with one from a downer Lacrosse machine

[Pat Pixley]

 You can either do what Johnie G has told you  or  find a doner deck (From a (La Crosse) and  pray that one will last,  or send it off to a pro in your area  or send it  to one of these Pro's Globel compressor or Soda Jerk works Both do compressor work.

  Nothing says cobled like a wrong deck in a machine that it does not belong in, Do it right the first time.  and later you will be happy that you did.

[Aahgo]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I appreciate it.  A local guy I contacted was talking like $300 to repair.  It sounds high to me, what do you think?

If I find a donor, is the old deck worth anything to the people who repair them?

Anyone know of someone with Lacrosses they may sell for parts?  (Preferrably in the Milwaukee/Chicago area).

Special thanks to Pat Pixley, who's been helping me with advice and trying find other parts for this machine.

Glenn.

[loman4ec]

Pat,

I agree however I have done several that you could never tell it had a different deck in it. Also in these square tops most people either cant afford or dont want to pay more than the machine is worth for a cooling system rebuild. Here is a pic of a V56 with a dixie narco system in it. This system is from a new bubble front machine. It worked great!

[Kilroy]

GFlenn,
Lacrosse was built in Wisconsin, so if you decide to  go the donor route,  the machines were primarily  found in the midwest. Post a wanted ad on your local Craigslist,  and ask around. i'm sure  one will turn up close by

[Pat Pixley]

Great picture there Josh I can really see the the compressor from that angle.         

Pat,

I agree however I have done several that you could never tell it had a different deck in it.

Glenn you have put that much time and effort into it  whats a little more, this is something you plan on keeping (or until a buddy offers big money for it )
Just do it right . And it sound like your going to .

  Pat

[Aahgo]

Pat, I certainly would like to keep it as original as possible.  So if I can't repair it, I'll try and find a LaCrosse donor.  Checked Craig's list.  Closest thing I can find so far is a couple of states away, so may need to wait a while. 

I may still try to recharge it myself since I don't think I have that much to lose.  But would need to research that some more.  It does have what looks like the valve JohnieG was talking about.  I'll post a picture of it later when I get home.

This weekend I plan to pull the deck back out and examine all the lines very closely to see if I can see any obvious areas where I might have overstressed them.  I don't think I kinked anything, but the joints might have been stressed too much.

[Aahgo]

Here is a picture of the compressor (I hope).  Is this the valve Johnie G was talking about?  What is the method to check the charge?

[johnieG]

Yes, That is a aftermarket "saddle" valve on the larger copper line ( low-side/suction line) this is where you'd attach your gauge sets blue-hose ( for the low side gauge)... if you follow the suction line around to the back side of the compressor you should find the original ( factory) service valve also.  Someone probably installed this one because it was too much "work" to pull the deck out & use the factory valve,  either they were just plain lazy, or it was damaged in some way, or they had no idea what they were looking at.

[Aahgo]

Ok, thanks.  Learning more all the time.

when looking at potential donor machines...will a compressor from a Lacrosse 64 be fit into and be sufficient for a Lacrosse 81?

[Pat Pixley]

Great picture there Josh I can really see the the compressor from that angle.          

Josh, I would like to apologize to you, sorry about being short with you.

Pat

[loman4ec]

No Problem pat. I was not suggesting it was the best option. I was just saying if he needed a cheap way to make it work that can be an option. He mentioned that he didn't want to spend a lot on the machine and parts are not easy to find for the machine. The Dixie Narco system that was put into the V56 was actually very close to the same system it originally came with. If I remember right even the mounting holes were the same.

[johnieG]

Ok, thanks.  Learning more all the time.

when looking at potential donor machines...will a compressor from a Lacrosse 64 be fit into and be sufficient for a Lacrosse 81?

It would probably physically fit OK, but it may have a smaller sized compressor installed onto it's deck, (1/4HP vs 1/3HP), [which would still cool the soda's but it would take longer to pull the cabinet down to temperature]

PS...I've also noticed that the after market saddle valve that's pictured appears to be an earlier Robin-Air brand valve with it's tell-tale red lucite thumb wheel that's installed with just two clamping bolts.

This style of valve is very prone to leaking as it will easily twist about the suction line & dislodge its seal,if it's not already dry-rotted, (the seal that is)  considering you've pulled & reinstalled the system, it's a likely culprit if you're low on refrigerant. inspect it very closely, & give it a gentle tweak & see if there's any give to it's clamping about the suction line.

I'd warm the compressor system up by starting the machine & temporarily block the condenser fan blade from spinning with a rag stuffed about it for only about 5 minutes, (this will raise the system pressure above normal, but it should do no harm) then unplug the machine &  remove the rag, now use some bubble detection solution all around the valve & see if it foams, then test all of the visible joints & any kinks that may have occurred when the system was pulled & reinstall ( especially any spots were you may have "adjusted" or straightened the tubing.

Also note that if there is sufficient gas left in the system, the condensers coils will get very warm to hot quickly, so watch you hands, wear gloves & eye protection & remember not to run the system with the fan blocked for no more than five minutes Tops!

[Aahgo]

Hey Johnie G;

Thanks for your advice.  I've pulled the deck back out and did as you advised.  Blocked the C-fan and ran for 5 min.  Sprayed a leak detector on all the joints - no obvious leaks.  I did notice a couple (three) things.
1) there is a pretty good kink on one of the lines, it was there originally, but I might have made it worse when I re-installed it into the unit.  Don't suppose there is any way to unkink a line?
2) there is some frosting on the line coming out of the bottom of the evaporator.
3) the fan on the compressor seems to be blowing back towards the compressor as opposed to away from the compressor and through the heat exchanger.  That don't seem right to me.  I didn't remove the fan blades when I cleaned it but I guess my predecessor could have  (although judging by the layer of crud on everything it would have been a long time ago).  Which way is correct?

Thanks, Glenn.

[johnieG]

the compressor fan should always draw (pull) air over (through) the condenser's coils first then past the fan , and lastly over the compressor itself, it should never push air from the fans side backwards through the condenser..

[Aahgo]

Ok, good to know.   Thanks for the clarification.

What about the kinked line?  Is this a show stopper or can something be done with it?

Thanks,
Glenn.

[johnieG]

Unless it's severely bent/kinked to the point of pinching off the tubing's inside diameter by more than 2/3'ds , I'd leave it be, because if you attempt to straighten it, ( especially if it's been bent at that point in the past) you run the possibility of fracturing the line due to "work-hardening" the copper...  while it is possibly to re-anneal the tube to rework the kink, it's not recommended to heat the tubing while there is a high pressure in the system, ( the line could burst open)  I'm assuming you've kinked the larger suction line...

here's an interesting & useful article on annealing copper ( making it soft again so it can be re-worked/formed)...a Mapp-gas torch works just as well if you don't have an oxy/acetylene set

http://www.ehow.com/how_5796817_anneal-copper-tubing.html