Need help with with (electrical) "Have a Coke" not lighting up.

[MICoke]

Hi,

Newbie here, as I picked up my first flat-top over the weekend.  I absolutely love it, a bottles only C64, with the overwhelming fact that Costco stocks Mexican 12 oz. Coke, and many many other glass bottle beverages (that contain no HFCS) ready to vend!  Alright, now....I need your help.  I have been busy cleaning and tweeking my machine, but I've ran into an electrical challenge and need your advice.
Cavalier CSS-8-64, the "Have a Coke" does not light up.  It's not the bulb.  Here are some pictures.....thanks for your direction.

[collecture]

Not so sure about ST electrical (I'm a RT guy), but is there product in the machine?
Maybe it will not light up unless there is something in the machine to vend?
Somebody more in the know will chime in soon...just my guess.

[tkaz]

The 'Have a Coke' light should come on when the vend solenoid is activated, basically when the machine is ready to vend after putting change in it.  You won't have to have the machine stocked, but you need to run enough change through the coin mech to activate it.

If it still doesn't light up, then we'll try something else.

[MICoke]

Yes, there is product in the machine.  

[MICoke]

Yes, my Coinco S75-9800A, is working just perfect.  Loaded up and filled both coin tubes with nickels, primed it, cleaned it, and the coin changer runs perfectly.

[tkaz]

OK, next spot to check is the credit switch at the bottom of the vending stack, which can be tricky to get to.  I'll try to find a photo for you, but the way it works is that the solenoid at the bottom of the stack pushes a lever out, which lets the machine vend.  When the lever is pushed out, it contacts a switch which turns on the 'Have a Coke' light.

The switch is all the way at the bottom, back left on the inside of the machine.  I had a similar issue a while back and it ended up that the contacts were bad, I just crimped on new connectors and it was all set.

Here's the wiring diagram if you need it, the switch will have a green, orange, and purple wire going to it.

[MICoke]

OK, so I want to look in the back inside bottom (left rear corner), and find the solenoid, or the switch, then check for loose wiring, etc?

[tkaz]

Here's a photo of what the switch will look like, not exact, but similar.

[MICoke]

tkaz,

I appreciate your help immensely!  OK, I will look for that switch?  Or should we call it a connector?  Also, the connector that goes to the bulb, (photo below), may have a loose wire inside.  I don't know for sure, but when I wiggle the white connector, I can see one white wire move around.  Could this be the problem?  

[tkaz]

Try pushing the bulb in, then twisting it.

Just to make sure, the machine vends soda fine?  You put change in, and pull out a soda.  And the whole time, the 'Have a Coke' light is never on?  Check that first.

As for testing the socket, if you know that the 'correct change' light is working, you can swap around the wires to see if that lights up.

[MICoke]

Yes, everything is vending perfectly, and the USE EXACT CHANGE light is off, because my Coinco is full of nickels.  So, your idea to swap is great.  I will disconnect the connector from the socket "Have a Coke", and disconnect the connector from the socket "USE EXACT CHANGE", swap them out, and see if "HAVE A COKE" lights up.  If it lights up, I know its a bad connector.  If it doesn't, it's either a bad socket, or the problem is at the source, (the other end).  Right?  OK, out to the garage.  I hope I can get these connectors off, they were brutal, when I tried.

[MICoke]

I swapped out the Exact Change socket/bulb, (which I know works) and "Have a Coke" still did not light up....sooooo.....I am off to the hardware store to pickup a couple of nylon connectors.  So we know it's not the socket.  If it's not a bad connector, I did notice the wiring harness down below making a hard 90 degree angle and rubbing into and touching a galvanized junction box.  This could also be where the short is.  So it's either a bad nylon connector, or a short in the wire from down below.

[MICoke]

Update:  The 7 watt lamp socket is good, with new connectors, crimped on.  So, I still have the problem of Have a Coke light not lighting up.  I am providing new photos of the Junction Box, (next to the Coinco), and the Terminal Block, where a bad connection is possible?  I do have a question on the Junction Box Assy.  There are two or three exposed and not used terminal plugs.  Why?  Also, My Parts and Service manuel does not call out the "Have a Coke" lamp in the circuit diagram, it does however call out the "Correct Change" lamp, but not the "Have a Coke Lamp".  This Parts and Service manuel is shared amongst several models.  Not sure what to do?  The problem my be in the Terminal Block which has several wires going into it.  This Terminal Block is located right below the bottom shelf, may be where the problem is.  Shall I Remove the Terminal Block and check the connections?  Do I give up and find a local competent vending tech repair guy in the Seattle area to help me?

Tkaz, I could not find the credit switch at the bottom of the vending stack, which you indicated can be tricky to get to.  Did you find a photo? , You had mentioned that a solenoid at the bottom of the stack pushes a lever out, which lets the machine vend.  When the lever is pushed out, it contacts a switch which turns on the 'Have a Coke' light. I am not sure where to look.  You had mentioned that the switch is all the way at the bottom, back left on the inside of the machine.  You had also mentioned that you had a similar issue a while back and it ended up that the contacts were bad, and you just crimped new connectors and it was all set.  Is the switch your referring to near the Terminal Block? photo below.

[tkaz]

The switch is on the opposite side from the terminal block, if you snap a photo of the bottom left corner, I can give you some direction.  It may be easier to take the stack out to work on it, but I'll see if you can get to it first.  Taking the stack out involves removing all the shelves, then removing two screws on the top of the stack.  Not hard at all.

Also, the wiring in the terminal block looks good.

[MICoke]

tkaz,
I have removed rack # 7 and 8, and looking for a green or white and yellow wire, correct?  I think your right from your original post.  It's in the very back left corner.  Looks difficult to get to, so I will need your help in how to get access back there.  Remove all remaining racks?  Where are the two screws your referring about?  Also, remember the wiring diagram you posted above?  I've got the same diagram glued to the inside door.  It does reflect "Have a Coke" light on this diagram.  Here are some new photos....

[tkaz]

The switch is directly behind the panel that the purple and yellow wires go through in your first photo.  Told you it was hard to get to!

[MICoke]

Right.  I see that there are wires or a switch back there.  OK, do I need to remove all the remaining six racks?  Then what?

[tkaz]

Remove the shelves, if you look on the top of the rack, on the left side of the machine, you'll see two bolts you can remove with a socket or a phillips screwdriver.  That's all that holds on the rack, you will be able to tilt it to the side then pull it out.  The wiring can be left attached, just make sure you don't pinch it or pull too hard when you are taking the rack out.

[MICoke]

Did I say your phenomenal?  Got the Bottle gate rack off, (as you know, it was easy).  OK, the wiring looks good.  I have noticed a metallic flip switch in the off position.  Flip it on, put my bottles back in, and fire the machine up?

[tkaz]

Being careful not to touch any bare wires, plug the machine in and flip that switch back and forth, see if the light comes on.

[MICoke]

More photos below.  OK, I will turn it on and flip the switch, (without any bottles in the rack?).  I thought it was necessary to have bottles ready to vend? 

[MICoke]

Light did not come on after flipping the metallic switch.  I assume I should re-assemble and put product back in the shelves?

[tkaz]

While its still disassembled, flip the switch so the light is off, put coins in the mech just like you were going to vend, and see if it works ok.  If the light comes on, reassemble.  If you watch the rack when you are putting the coins in, you can see the solenoid push the lever over, opening the switch and allowing the rack to vend one bottle.

Since it works, there may be a little corrosion on the switch contacts, and moving it around may have gotten it to work.  You can try to pull off the orange wire and reattach it, to try to get around it for a while.  I had this same issue except with the green wire, so the 'have a coke' light never turned off.  I put a new spade connector on it for good measure.

[MICoke]

SORRY, CORRECTION.  Light DID NOT come after flipping the metallic switch.  I assume I should re-assemble and put product back in the shelves?

[tkaz]

Unplug it, swap the green and orange wires on the switch, then plug it back in, is the light on now?

[MICoke]

Swapped the Orange and the Green.  Light is ON.....ONLY on the OPEN switch position.  Does this mean we have success?

[tkaz]

Well, it means we successfully identified the problem!  Since the light is working, then the wiring is good throughout the machine.  It also means that the switch is bad.  I'll check if I have a switch for you, but try Funtronics to see if they have it.  Maybe someone else can chime in if they happen to have one.

After you get the new switch, wire it up like it was in the first place, like your photo and you should be all set.

And thanks for keeping me busy, slow day at work and I'd rather be working on my machines!

[MICoke]

What are the results if I stock the machine with product and use it in the swapped wire position?  Nomenclature of the switch?

[tkaz]

If its left in the current position, nothing will vend, coins won't be accepted by the mech, but the light will be on!  Returning the wires to their original position will let everything work as its supposed to, the 'have a coke' light just won't come on.  

There is potential that just pulling off the wires and putting them back on will solve your problem, like I said with mine that's all it took, I just needed to get the corrosion off the terminal and it was fine.  

Do you happen to have a multimeter with a continuity function to test the switch?

Here's a replacement switch:
http://www.sodajerkworks.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=165&cat=11&page=1

[MICoke]

What's the name of the switch, do you know?  I actually don't have a multimeter, should I fine one, borrow one, or just order a new switch?

[MICoke]

tkaz,

Janet does not have the switch in stock.  Not sure the name of the switch, since the wiring diagram just calls it a switch.  Can you check your inventory at home?  Also, I wonder if these switches are re-workable?  Do you think this is a common switch that can be ordered from a parts catalog at a local electrical distributor?  Should I crimp new connectors on for both the green and orange?

[MICoke]

Micro Switch P/N:  BZ-2RW84128-D1

[GreginNM]

Looks like Soda Jerk Works has it in stock...follow the link that tkaz put on his last post.  They are good folks as well. 

Good luck!  I'm enjoying the troubleshooting show as it progresses!

[MICoke]

Ordered the switch.  Thanks to all, and of course I will follow up and close this thread out once I've installed and verified success.  As you know, it's not over till it's over.  How much do I owe tkaz?  How much money did he save me?  This was a real experience and a lot of fun, in addition to a huge learning experience on my part.

[tkaz]

No problems, I only charge for mileage, the troubleshooting is free.  If I figure it out, your only 2,757 miles away, so 2,757x$0.36, you only owe me $992.52!

Just kidding around, stick around this site for a while, everything I learned is from someone here.  Its a great group always willing to help out.

What are you using the machine for? 

[MICoke]

I am basically using the machine for our family and friends to enjoy. With plenty of sources for 12 oz. bottles containing no HFCS, it will also be a conversation piece with family and friends.  Most people never think about vintage RT's or ST's, in addition to using these machines for Mexican Coke, Thomas Kemper Cane, and the enormous of other choices in glass today.  Of course, there is the nostalgic part of it, too.

On the flip side, I asked Steve at SJW's the root cause for my switch to fail, since it basically sat residentially unplugged with it's previous owner, for about 25 years.  Steve said that the silicone, or oil inside the switch tends to not be effective, due to lack of use.  Even though he sold me a new switch, he suggested that I exercise the brass switch about 100 times to wake it up and get it self lubricated.  He said sometimes this does the trick, and my light could very possibly go on.  However, he did say that it may only work for a month or two.  Once the switch starts to fail, they sometimes go downhill.  On the other-hand, our machine will be on with actively in use, so who knows?  I just may re-install the switch and run a functional on it, to satisfy my curiosity.

Oh, BTW, I am certainly planning on staying around here.  I love message board and forums and consider myself a newbie enthusiast.  I would love to have a Chrome Trim 64C and a restored Vendo 81-B someday.

[MICoke]

Well, my.....Am I a bit disappointed!  I received and installed the Micro switch, and after a successful install, I'm a bit sad.  The "Have a Coke" light will only light up after receiving money.  In other words, this light will not be on all the time, only when it's ready to vend.  I called Steve down at SJW's, and he confirmed that this is the correct factory effect.  If I wanted the light to be on all the time, (for cosmetic effects), I would have to tap into one of the hot wires off the Coinco box.  But, I am in danger of putting a lot of heat from the 7 watt bulb to the "Have a Coke" lens, with the possibility of melting it, in time.  I think I will keep it factory, to be safe, unless I hear from some on you.

Well, I am most thankful for all your help, and all is good.  I  just didn't think it would turn out this way...... I was hoping for my light to be on 24/7.  Any comments?

[collecture]

You have a lighted sign above the coin entry.
You can also buy a sign to sit on top of the machine if you want something else lit all the time. You can buy some cool signs off eBay and elsewhere and then fabricate your own box and fluorescent light assembly to fit it.
I'd leave the machine as it was meant to be.

[Kilroy]

Don't know why Vendo never had a vend when lit option, and in time, I think you may like it more not being constantly lit. Between the marquee sign above, and assuming the door is lit, I think it would be lost.
and when friends notice the light goes on when they deposit the correct change, they're get a kick out of it, and  keep unloading their quarters in your machine

[tkaz]

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize that you always wanted it on.  I always liked that it came on after you put in the correct change.

If you were feeling experimental, and you want the light on all the time, you could wire the orange and blue together at the switch, then it would be on all the time.  It would be interesting to try replacing the incandescent C7 bulb (I think that's what it is) with one of the new LED bulbs, like the one here:

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=C7LEDWHITE&Category_Code=XmasC7&Product_Count=10

The LED will run much cooler and probably won't affect your lens on the Have a Coke.

[MICoke]

tkaz, I also think it's neat that the light comes on after coins, but, it only lasts for a few seconds, until you vend.  However, I may experiment, as you suggested.  The Blue is connected to "Common" and the Orange is connect of "Normal Open".  By twisting them together, would they both go on "Normal Open", and the Common be naked?

Great advice on the LED bulb.  Are you using them?  Are they as bright as incandescent bulbs?

[tkaz]

Orange and blue would be tied together and both go to common, that would allow everything to work as it should with that light staying on. The normally open switch would be left open.

Never tried the LED bulbs, but started to think about experimenting after buying a few strings of Xmas lights, they got me thinking...

[scalebowler]

My roommate got some green LED bulbs for his lamp. They were really dim in his lamp but they looked pretty good as sold out lights in my machine. They are not very bright on their own but in the small area where the sold out lights are the light is bright enough.

[johnieG]

tkaz, I also think it's neat that the light comes on after coins, but, it only lasts for a few seconds, until you vend.  However, I may experiment, as you suggested.  The Blue is connected to "Common" and the Orange is connect of "Normal Open".  By twisting them together, would they both go on "Normal Open", and the Common be naked?

Great advice on the LED bulb.  Are you using them?  Are they as bright as incandescent bulbs?

I found them at my English Gardens nursery store, ( they are C7 direct replacements for a standard Xmas tree lights & they were on clearance sale post Xmas) Yellow seems the brightest but I've seen them in a blueish/white that's fairly bright, but them were sold out of th e"white" by the time I got to the sale...Yellow still looks pretty good though! PS... they ran $5.00 for a pack of 4-lamps, red.green,blue & yellow.