Popperette on Ebay

[Larry]

Not my favorite version.  I don't care for the stand,salt shaker holder, or the chromed doors, but someone out here might like it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300367649867&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

[Sodak Bob]

And why would he cycle it through without oil - couldn't that damage the heater ?  It will be interesting to see how it goes....

[Sodak Bob]

Larry - do you see the tub for the oil ?  I see the pump, but I do not see the heater and the oil tub.  His cabinet door locks on the side like mine..... You're right - i don't like how he did the cabinet...  but a neat complete machine.

[SIGNGUY]

The heater would be inside the oil pan,, he doesn't have a photo of the oil cooking pan off the machine, as it would be located up in there. But I agree, if he ran it dry with no oil.. that heater is shot..
and your right, there is no oil resevoir tank.. I just use a Metal pan in mine..

I'm not crazy about the white stand, and the chrome doors seem to be overkill as I like restored to original myself...
should be interesting to see if this sells and for how much

[BrianB]

I sent him a message via ebay letting him know of the possible fix he or the new owner might be in after he "Ran it dry" I tried to be as constructive as possible pointing out the facts only. I ended it with "If you have any questions....." 

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. The machine I bought had a trashed ceramic element body! It really comes down to ignorance, plain and simple. It also exposes en engineering problem on the part of the OEM. Definitely a lack of testing and good R&D.

The guy that I bought my machine off of more than likely had no clue that the element was a few cycles away from breaking. Most buyers, especially if they've never owned a popcorn machine, probably wouldn't think about that as a potential. Even if they had owned one, the cooking configuration that the Popperette uses is it's own little animal, and a weird one at that!

I just hope that some unsuspecting buyer doesn't snatch this machine up fo a few thousand dollars and end up with a really great looking coin-op BOAT ANCHOR!

[Larry]

I never even read the Ebay listing.  Just saw it, copied it, and posted it.  What a nimrod.

It is definately a NO NO to run the heater dry.  Odds are that it is cracked.  He said he let it go through a natural cycle.  That's hard to do when the popcorn is what turns the motor back on , by lifting the umbrella, and then the heater turns off as the cam moves around.  It is impossible for the cycle to end without that popcorn.  Whoops, I forgot...that's what the thermostat does.  If it cycled off of the tstat without any oil to overheat.....,it is shot.

It is a newer style of Popperette.  My guess is it is the last version.  The stand with the side hinged door, red "Watch It Pop," and the machined (way down) cam is a dead give away.

[Cokemachinesandmore]

Larry what edo you think the purpose was of shaving done the cam?  shorten the cycle time?

[Larry]

It was first shaved off to raise the pan higher after the cycle was completed for oil drainage.  This way you would get less oil in your finished product. 

The first version had no material shaven off and only one kick on the cam.  Then they added the double kick and started shaving some off.  This one and the spare one you have are really shaved down low.  I can't see it draining any more oil than the cams that are only milled down a 1/4" to 1/2".

It might be to decrease the time because the batch is already cooked at this time.  Faster brings in more profits.  So maybe it had a maximum drain angle because of shortened time?

[Sodak Bob]

The heater that I was refering to, was the tube heater in the reserve tank - I do not see it present.  I just use a ceramic bowl, but there has to be a heat source to turn the reserve back to liquid. I know some use a fondu pot...    Larry, if the main heater is cracked (ruined), there is no replacement for it...right

[Larry]

The tube heaters were used for melting the oil.  They take a long time to melt it.  I used the fondue pot and it works great.  I tried numerous heaters and they all failed.  I would probably use at least two tube heaters when I redo my machine.

If you use one tube heater, you can make popcorn before all the oil is melted.  You just want to create a hole in the oil where the tube and the tube heater are inserted into the oil.  You only need to get the oil temperature above 72 F to melt it.  You want the heat from the heater to transfer up into the tube and pump and melt any oil in there.  So after there is a quarter sized hole, I will make a batch.

While the batch is being made, oil will begin to run out of the top pan and into the reservoir.  That oil is hot and it will start to melt the remaining oil.  It wont melt all of it.  As long as you have oil flowing out of the top pan, while the pump is pumping, you are good to go.

If the main heater is cracked, it will still work.  Before, 90% of the heaters I saw were cracked, but now these machines are appearing more frequently.  My friend cracked his on some dumb experiment that he did and he still uses it.  As long as the wire keeps the porcelein together and the wire doesn't short against itself, it will work.  The only real purpose of the porcelein is to become a skeletal frame to keep the wire from shorting to itself or its metal surroundings.  

[SIGNGUY]

here is the reply I got from the seller.. still doesn't explain how the umbrella swith would be activated to turn the machine back on after popcorn was popped Like Larry said. buyer beware of a broken heater..
Dear coke-n-stuff,

Hi coke-n-stuff,
We know how this machine operates and would damage it if ran dry and let it overheat.
This is what we did, we put a little oil and pluged it in and quickly un-pluged it, let it cool then pluged it in and un-pluged it,we did this through out the whole cycle so not to over heat the heater.
Hope this helps, thanks for your interest,
Rich & Cindy


- dumbblue

[Marvin]

I've never seen one of these machines.  What is so special about the heater that can't be reproduced?  I am just assuming it is an element similar to a stove top, but with a ceramic shell.  Anyone have any pics of one?

Marvin

[Larry]

Here's a heater picture.

[Marvin]

Thanks Larry,
That was quick.  It looks much different than I imagined, but does not appear to be over complicated.  What are the reasons people are giving for not reproducing these?  Is it the cost or something else?  I imagine there is a limited market for them but people seem to need them.

[BrianB]

Marvin,

It's a limited market and finding somebody to machine/cast the proper material isn't cheap. I've been researching this very topic on and off for a couple of years now and after one prototype and another of different properties on the way I might have a good replacement soon. I am now a lot more versed on ceramics and their properties as well as industry standards and manufacturing techniques/costs.

Here's a couple of pic's. First are pics of what a broken element ceramic body looks like when it's been run without oil. The last pic is of my first prototype.

[Larry]

Limited market, but these machines are poping up out of the woodwork now.  If someone could make one for a reasonable cost I know of three that would sell.

The wire is a nichrome wire.  I have about five wires that I cut from a spool.  Where I use to work they used the exact sized wire for a pressure relieve device.  I ohmed out the wire and cut a few pieces.  I think it was about 10'.

[Marvin]

I guess the ceramic is there to help hold heat in the oil.  I was wondering why a different element all together would not work.  It may not look original but would work. 

It looks like Brian is on the right path to getting a replacement one working. 

Marvin

[BrianB]

I have researched replacements that out of the 3 criteria "Form, Fit & Function" meets 2, Fit and Function.

Small, oil immersion heaters exsist and would work well excpet for one common problem. The size of tube heater or an cased/encapsulated element that would fit in the confines of the original heating element does not come from the manufacturer with a way to terminate the electrical contacts while it's submerged. All of the modern elements are designed with the requirement that only the body of the element will be submerged, not the electrical connection.

The way the Popperette is designed allows the entire element to be submerged including the electrical connection which makes it a freak and difficult to duplicate unless doing it to the spec.